To be seriously considering using donor embryos?

[Sleepswithbutterflies]

My mother thinks I am. She thinks I should be happy I've got ds and just move on.

She said:

1. she won't feel the same about a donor embryo grandchild as she does ds.
2. we are taking a huge gamble as loads of things could go wrong.
3. the child will want to find it's 'real' family (won't be possible as will be done in Spain where the donor is anonymous)
4. the child won't ever fit in properly.
5. children conceived with donor eggs get cancer (I am not sure where she's had this from as I cannot find any source to back this up.)
6. we are playing 'god' and it is morally wrong.
7. I won't bond with the child because it won't be mine.

We do have a ds but have been trying for a second child for two years. We have tried ivf but it has failed. I don't want to adopt. I want to get to be pregnant and have a newborn. Is that really selfish?

We don't really have any options left apart from to try donor embryos. Which obviously may not even work.
Aibu to want to try?

Yanbu

I think people are using the wrong terms.....the woman who gives birth is the biological mother of the child. The donor is the genetic mother however due to the role of epigenetics we now know that the woman carrying the baby has a hugely significant role in the actual creation of the child. How the genes are expressed and which ones are turned off and on is dependent on her body. Its certainly a load of rubbish to describe the genetic mother as the real parent as some studies have apparently shown the egg recipient has far greater influence over the outcome then either the egg donor or sperm donor. My friend's consultant said that from a medical point of view she has the strongest claim to be the real parent and that's without any subsequent actual parenting!

So in reality it is nothing like adoption.

At my age if I had IVF I would probably be advised to use a donor egg, because I already have a son who is genetically mine and my partners I don't think I would want to risk having another who isn't mine genetically. I just have this nagging worry I wouldn't feel the same love for the child. So I do understand your Mum's worry.

But if you have thoroughly discussed this with your husband and are totally at peace with it yourself then I see no reason why you shouldnt go ahead.

I just have this nagging worry I wouldn't feel the same love for the child

Don't all parents feel this about a theoretical second child? My first child was adopted and when I was applying for a second I was really concerned that I could not possibly be as lucky with a second child who would be as marvelous as my first. I couldn't imagine loving anyone as much as I loved my first! It's not really a matter of genetics - some people have to work hard at bonding with their child in the early days whether the child is genetically or biologically theirs or not, others don't.

I get this from time to time from non-adopters - "I couldn't love a child that wasn't mine" What they mean is "I feel such an overwhelming love for my child that I cannot imagine feeling the same way about another child".

Possibly thats true, that some people just can't feel love for something not genetically related to them - which raises an interesting point about how much they love their DH's and how much they would love their child if it were discovered that they were given the wrong child at the hospital and its discovered 5 years later. Do you give the child back gleefully thinking "great now I get my proper child" all love having evaporated when you realised they weren't genetically (or biologically) yours?

You might think you love your child just because they are genetically yours but I'd be staggered if in 95% of cases that were true when push comes to shove - you just assume that because its the norm.

When you're ready for a family I think you are programmed to nurture small children and when they are totally dependent on you, your default position is to protect and nurture which becomes love and that love evolves into loving the particular characteristics of that child as they grow and develop a personality.

Thats harder to kick start if you don't have the oxytocin neatly provided by nature during labour but its certainly not a deal breaker!

Sorry that turned into a bit of an essay

I just think that I see myself in my son. DP and myself often discuss things he does, the expressions he pulls, traits etc and we might link them to my side of his side.

If we had another that was, say, my partners genetically but not mine. I would hate to be on a position where I said something about my genetic son but then my theoretical second child felt left out or I had to make extra sure that I never mentioned him having my nose as I couldn't say that about second child.

With two adopted children you aren't linked genetically to either, so you wouldn't run the risk of singling one out over the other in that way.

However that is just my personal view and I don't expect others to share it. I would always love a biological baby, I know that, I would just hate for then to grow up and sat 'I knew you always favoured firstborn' and I was left thinking oh god, did I subconsciously favour my pfb? Or might I overcompensate the other way to make sure second child didn't feel that way to the detriment to my relationship with pfb?

Lord knows as it ain't going to happen, I just pondered it and those were my thoughts.

I understand your concerns. I was just pointing out that what you worry about isn't uncommon and rarely the reality.

DS also has expressions and traits I share. It isn't genetic. And yet in so very many ways he is so much like a mini-me that it makes my mum laugh.

You really do forget how your child became your child at various points, it really isn't something you think about much after a certain point. My mum at one point said to me "DS really has your hair doesn't he?" and looked very confused when I said "Actually no he really doesn't".

I have even fallen into the trap of it myself when joking with someone about how I used to be a man (long story why it was a joke) when they said "well I know that's not true because you have your lovely DS" and I genuinely said "Duh yes of course that gives it away" totally forgetting that it proves nothing!

Maybe its a bigger issue if you do spend a lot of time pointing out your child has your nose/chin etc but the majority of adopters I know have birth children and really its doesn't impinge on their lives the majority of the time.

In any event when you have children who look very dis-similar to you (as DS does to me - different race/colour/sex) whether because they are step children, adopted, mixed race, or just look very different, there is a lovely book by Carrie Kitse "I don't have your eyes"... but I have your way of looking at things.

Other examples "I don't have your hair ... but I have your way of letting it down"
"I don;t have your feet... but I have your way of taking things one step at a time"

Its a really beautiful book for any children who look different to their parents and really encourages you as a parent to focus on the things that you and your child have in common not in the visual differences (it does celebrate difference too "I don't have your face but I know you love the look that is mine alone".

My point wasn't that you didn't or shouldn't worry about it but that its normal to worry about any number of things with a second - believe me the worry isn't less adopting a second because they aren't genetically related but more with the added risks of drug addiction, foetal alcohol syndrome and unknown inherited illnesses without factoring in the almost certain damage done by the process of adoption itself. My point was more that the worries we all have about prospective unknown children aren't always rational and even if they are rational, you can deal with them without too big an impact.

Kewcumber - what lovely posts.

I am not adopted but look little like my family. Thank youZ

Chumrun - if you look at my photos you will see just how totally not like me DS is and how ridiculous it is that I (and my mum) forget he isn't genetically mine!

Sorry OP thats a bit of a hijack

OP - I wish you all the very best with what ever decision you make, this is all so tough. I am so sorry though that your mum isn't being more supportive - some of her comments seem particularly destructive.

Kewcumber I just wanted to thank you for your posts. I'm currently waiting for an egg donor and have been worrying about the lack of a genetic link and the impact that might have, and I can't actually express how touched I was by what you wrote.

Just echoing some praise for kewcumber - it's a very emotional topic with many complications but ultimately the person who parents a child is their parent -

also my own biological son looks nothing like me - totally different colouring and personality - but he is def mine!!! biology doesn't mean an automatic mini me and I have never been told in nearly 4 yrs by anyone that he looks or acts like me or by DH - but bizarrely I know several people who have adopted and they are always told how similar their children look and behave to them - lol

On a more serious note it's a complicated matter particularly if you chose to tell the child it's not your biological child and have no way of allowing child to access their heritage as it's anonymous in Spain - if this is the key issue why not do it in uk where this is possible? It's pricier but not ott

We went to the Marques clinic a couple of years ago for egg donation. We had IVF twice in London and my eggs just weren't up to it. London's recommendation was to keep going, and after another 8 or 9 attempts, we might get lucky (?!).

The Marques clinic was recommended by a friend. We went over and discussed IVF options with them. It was our absolute last go at IVF. We had a choice of stick with my eggs and have a 5% chance of success, go with donor eggs and have 50% chance of success. Egg donation also worked out cheaper than the PGD we needed to use my eggs. They matched my physical characteristics to a donor, and we got lucky. We now have a 3 yr old DS by egg donation and three frozen embryos in the freezer.

He is absolutely 100% our child. I carried him, I fed him as a baby, we go to him when he wakes up, we are the ones he runs to with a big smile on his face at the end of the day. OK, he will never be able to contact his genetic mother (and I hope he forgives us for that) but we are his family. He is the most confident and charming little boy... We read a story to him regularly about donor IVF so he knows where he comes from and he now draws pictures of sperms...(sorry nursery!) Yes there are days when I worry we have done the wrong thing but the rest of the time we just get on with being a family.