To be seriously considering using donor embryos?

[Sleepswithbutterflies]

My mother thinks I am. She thinks I should be happy I've got ds and just move on.

She said:

1. she won't feel the same about a donor embryo grandchild as she does ds.
2. we are taking a huge gamble as loads of things could go wrong.
3. the child will want to find it's 'real' family (won't be possible as will be done in Spain where the donor is anonymous)
4. the child won't ever fit in properly.
5. children conceived with donor eggs get cancer (I am not sure where she's had this from as I cannot find any source to back this up.)
6. we are playing 'god' and it is morally wrong.
7. I won't bond with the child because it won't be mine.

We do have a ds but have been trying for a second child for two years. We have tried ivf but it has failed. I don't want to adopt. I want to get to be pregnant and have a newborn. Is that really selfish?

We don't really have any options left apart from to try donor embryos. Which obviously may not even work.
Aibu to want to try?

Can I ask why you don't want your child to be able to find the donors? You don't have to answer if you don't want to, I'm just curious.

You have posted in AIBU. Can I take from that that you are ok with people saying YABU? You have asked for opinions, right? Rather than just support?

I say this because I'm don't want to get roasted for saying that I think YABU and that it is morally wrong to deliberately deny a child a relationship with its natural family, heritage and history. I also think creating a child with the express purpose of giving it away is wrong.

Others will disagree of course. But you did post in AIBU where opinions are sought and where a variety will be given.

Using a donor egg is only the same as adopting but doing it an earlier stage no it isn't, it's very different, but I won;t get into that as OP isn't interested in adopting.

I would second what others have said about not keeping it a secret from child or siblings and DCN have some good advice I seem to recall about discussing donor with children

Your mothers concerns are all valid. If it were her getting pregnant and she is perfectly entitled to make the choice not to get pregnant with donor embryos herself! Having said that you probably need to find the difficult line between saying "we acknowledge your concerns" and "tough shit we're doing it anyway" to avoid family fall out.

Good luck

Alicia People donate embyros because their family is complete, for example they have ivf get 7 embyros have two/ three healthy children and have embyros left, they can then choose to destroy these or donate them to childless couples, they are not created for the express reason of being given away

Alicia - the embryo already exists and will be used by somebody so you aren't depriving that child of their birth heritage - that has already been done when their donor parents decided not to use the embryo and to donate it rather than let it be destroyed.

Its a fine line I agree but one which many people feel happier about that creating an embryo specifically.

If embryos were available in the uk I would have embryo donation here and then the child would be able to trace their background.
But I can't. Well. I can. If I wait five years, maybe more.

I'm the same as you op. Treatment in the UK is just not an option.

donor eggs are available here though

We would be open with the child from the start.
The other option is to try sperm donor in the uk as there is sperm available and the sperm is probably our issue. However it may be both eggs and sperm that aren't great and we've already spent over £10k. Our lives would be much simpler if we were fertile but there you go. We are not.

But we need donor eggs and donor sperm.
And there is a wait for donor eggs anyway. It would also cost a lot of money. I'm not sure how much, but at least the cost of a normal ivf round, and I hate for this to come down to a financial decision but to a degree it has to.

I've rung a number of clinics in the uk. My own clinic told me it was four years even for eggs.

There are definitely IVF clinics with waiting time of six months or less for DE.
however, if it's down to cost then that's different. Most certainly cheaper to go abroad.

Our lives would be much simpler if we were fertile Actually I think my life was way simpler during fertility treatment/adoption process! I was totally obsessed nothing else much impinged.

Life might have been cheaper though...

I can't regret any of it - I would have a different child if I had the "simple" get pregnant and have baby scenario. The really bizarre thought is that DS would still exist - just somewhere else in the world without me. I never can quite get my head around that.

It's not entirely down to cost - it's also down to waiting. Ds is 5 and we've been trying for 2 years. I don't want to put my life on hold for another year just waiting and feeling sad.

Otoh we could probably afford two goes in Spain. Because we have to be realistic and say it might take more then one go. It might take more than two but surely the more chances the more likely to be successful at done point.

I do understand - I waited 6 years (not counting the trying before fertility treatment) and was desperately sad not to be able to adopt a second after that.

But there isn't any way around that. You just have to try not to be too sad about it [pointless advice emoticon]

If its really getting you down that much then you need to give yourself an end point - either a time, or a fixed number of attempts (I did fixed number of attempts) and agree that you will stop after that. It worked for me though it was tough but it did give me "permission" to stop trying.

YANBU at all, and I wish you all the best. That's all.

How did you have your first child op?

Can I suggest talking or researching the donor conception network if you haven't already. I know people that have had involvement with them and their help, support and advice was invaluable. They do lots of research into donor conception and its implications for families and how to tell the child and other family and friends and grandparents. X

I wish you every bit of luck x

We had our first child naturally.
He was conceived the first month we tried.

I've no idea how.

Thank you, I will look at the donor conception network.

i have no experience in this .but good luck .and yes adoption is not for everyone because holding a newborn is a wonderfull experience .your mother stating she will feel different .well give her time she will probably not care .my sons partner has a little girl .i adore her do i feel anyless her grandma .no i don,t she is my angel

Sleeps, you have posted lost of different threads recently around this topic since your recent IVF failed. I'm so sorry you are in this position but I know from personal experience that donor treatment can have a happy ending, you just need to take time to consider the options. I disagree with all your mums thinking re a donor child apart from point 3. A donor child will (is very likely to) fit in your family, you will love it, you are no more playing god than most conception/fertility decisions.

However, re point 3, a child may decide to research it's genetic origins in the future. As a parent of 3 donor conceived children that is not something I am scared of. If you look into the donor conception network (or other donor sites) there are sadly a number of stories where a donor conceived adult has gone looking for genetic origins and has been unable to find anything due to anonymity. This can blight some peoples lives. For me personally using an anonymous donor(s) is not acceptable for this reason. It is clearly unacceptable in modern times to have completely closed adoptions where the birth parents cannot be traced by the adoptee. The evidence to support ending this practice was overwhelming due to the damage it caused. I think children born through donor practices should be given the same consideration. I have also said on an earlier thread that I do not believe that the wait times for donor eggs/embryos you have been quoted are accurate. There are a number of unscrupulous fertility clinics (with no donor gametes available) out there that would rather refer you to a clinic abroad (and get a kickback) than refer you to another uk clinic.
I wish you all the best with whatever you decide.

I did link a post on Olivia'sview (blog about donor conception) to an earlier thread of yours which list uk clinics which currently have more donors than recipients. If you want me to send you this info again pls let me know.

Hi Sleeps

As you know from your older thread my 3rd ivf was with donor, is it only embryo donation your considering? It takes a long time for them to come up, would you not do double donor?

I hope you're doing ok

i really feel for you OP. modern medicine is moving at a pace where it is hard to keep up with ethics/implications etc.

I have thought about DE but personally i would really struggle with it. i believe i would always wonder who the donors were and who my child took after. and that would transfer onto the child. however if your gut instinct tells you that you personally can deal with explaining to the child when it is older then i believe that it can be a good way to complete a family. just perhaps be prepared for twins (which actually would be great as they would then have a full bio sibling)