To be seriously considering using donor embryos?

[Sleepswithbutterflies]

My mother thinks I am. She thinks I should be happy I've got ds and just move on.

She said:

1. she won't feel the same about a donor embryo grandchild as she does ds.
2. we are taking a huge gamble as loads of things could go wrong.
3. the child will want to find it's 'real' family (won't be possible as will be done in Spain where the donor is anonymous)
4. the child won't ever fit in properly.
5. children conceived with donor eggs get cancer (I am not sure where she's had this from as I cannot find any source to back this up.)
6. we are playing 'god' and it is morally wrong.
7. I won't bond with the child because it won't be mine.

We do have a ds but have been trying for a second child for two years. We have tried ivf but it has failed. I don't want to adopt. I want to get to be pregnant and have a newborn. Is that really selfish?

We don't really have any options left apart from to try donor embryos. Which obviously may not even work.
Aibu to want to try?

I can see why you are considering DE treatment but would consider this option very carefully from an emotional and ethical perspective.

Firstly there is evidence to suggest that donor conceived people being unable to discover information about their genetic heritage can cause distress and frustration. As others have already suggested please look at Donor Conception Network website for support and information.

Secondly a DE child has 'full' genetic siblings growing up in the family from which the embryos originated. This can create a greater sense of curiosity for a DC child and perhaps questioning why genetic siblings have remained in the FOO but they were donated. Existential questions that perhaps cannot ever be answered, all down to fate and chance undoubtedly. But the child may still wonder about this other family whom they may feel they 'belong' to on some level but due to Spanish donor anonymity can never know anything about [apart from the merest of physical characteristics].

You may find it very helpful to discuss and explore all these perspectives with a specialist fertility counsellor as donor 'implications counselling' is their area of expertise and they can assist you to arrive at an informed decision which is right for you, the potential DE child and your family. Your fertility clinic may have a fertility counsellor on staff or may be able to refer you to someone externally? Otherwise have a look at the BICA [British Infertility Counselling Association] website for a list of specialist, accredited counsellors - www.bica.net

I hope all goes well for you however you ultimately decide to go forward.

I veer between feeling certain and not so certain.
Every time I see a pregnant lady I think yes. Every time I hold a friend's newborn I think yes. Every time ds tells me he wants a sibling so he's not the only child I think yes. Every time I think of being all on his own when we die I think yes.

But then I think a child isn't a right. Just because I want something so badly doesn't mean I deserve to get it. Maybe this is just god's way of telling me I shouldn't have any more children. I don't even believe in god but that's what I think when it wakes me up in the night and I lie awake worrying. Is it inherently selfish to do this? I know having any child is selfish but is this a whole new level? Does it treat the child like a commodity? Effectively we are 'buying' it. Oh I don't know. I don't feel very sure this morning - can you tell?!

OP- have you had your consultation in Spain yet. It will make a big difference. They can do tests that cant be done elsewhere. we went there wanting an Egg Donor, their tests showed that that would not have worked for us, but they talked us through all our options and we decided on embyro adoption.
The clinic in barcalcona is by far the best clinic i have been to on our Journey, It feels like they really want to find solutions rather then just pushing expensive treatment.

Is that the Marques clinic?
We have contacted them and also a clinic in alicante.

Chanced upon this thread in 'most active' and I just wanted to wish you well and much luck. People judge, they shouldn't.

yes the Marques clinic. We really were very impressed. Please budget for the tests though, we have to pay 1000 euro for some genetic tests , it sounds expensive but without those tests we would have gone ahead with treatment that would not have been successful.

I think donor embryos are great in theory but tricky in reality.

I can understand the all encompassing urge to have a baby at all costs. The fact that the baby isn't genetically yours feels like a minor issue.

But it's different for the child, who might look very different from its parents and siblings and will likely face a lifetime of questions.

I once read a story about a couple having IVF in India using a mixture of their embryos and donor embryos (I have no idea how many embryos were transferred: more than would be allowed in the UK certainly). The woman became pregnant and they had no idea whether one of "their" embryos, or one of the "Indian" embryos implanted. Well, she ended up giving birth to a obviously Indian child. They were thrilled, of course, but that has to be such a complex thing for a child to process. No, I'm not adopted, my mother gave birth to me... Yes, I am brown...

Anyway. I've gone off on a tangent. I genuinely wish you luck OP. Nothing about IVF is easy.

I don't know if this is a plus or a minus for you (it's a plus for me) but I don't think any child born now will have much trouble finding its genetic heritage. It's becoming more and more common for sites to offer DNA based genealogy (for example 23andme) where even if a parent isn't registered it could link someone with a cousin and narrow the search down.

Otoh we could probably afford two goes in Spain. Because we have to be realistic and say it might take more then one go. It might take more than two but surely the more chances the more likely to be successful at done point.

No that doesn't make sense mathematically and makes even less sense depending on your reason (medical) for not conceiving.

I have never been in this situation so I see it as an outsider but I think there are two parts to having children.

1. parents desire for a child

2. the child/adult who will result from the pregnancy.

I think 1 is well and truly ticked for you, you want a child and you want to get that child through pregnancy.

But I think 2 needs to be mentioned. Many people are curious about where they came from and if it is not straight forward then that can be troubling. It might not be. I have 2 cousins brought up by the same parents in the same family where one traced her birth mother and the other has no intention of.

See we feel torn because we know we have extreme male factor infertility but we don't know for sure that my eggs are not great. Our embryos have been slow growing but apparently that could be caused by either egg or sperm. Dh's morphology is awful and even the best sperm have, and I quote, 'weird features.'
I kind of would like to know if we could use my eggs because then we could use a sperm donor in the uk. I'm 31 by the way.
My clinic have completely written us off. We haven't even had a follow up appointment after our second failed ivf five weeks ago because they can't fit us in until September. Generally I've been pretty unhappy with it. During transfer the embryos had to be taken in and out of the incubator a number of times because the consultant couldn't find the right place to put them and transfer hurt which can't be good.

The only thing with Marques vs alicante is that alicante match eye colour, height etc whereas my understanding is that Marques will only guarantee race.

It's impossible to predict whether or not the theoretical child would want to find their genetic family. I know five people who were adopted. None of them have looked for their birth families.
However it's human nature to want to know I guess and perhaps knowing that you couldn't, rather than just didn't want to, would make it harder.

Its a difficult decision, we went with Marques as their success rate was so good. The match was a bit of a concern for us, but then we look at our families and its such a mixed bag that we decised it did not matter to us in the end, I look nothing at all like my parents, my brothers and sisters all look very different ect.

I went through the menopause at 27, discovered this when I came off the pill to conceive after being married for a year. Tried a couple or rounds of IVF using donor eggs, they failed. After 4 years of trying, I miraculously fell pregnant naturally!
Decided to count our blessings, and consider our family complete, but then I became broody again so we decided to try IVF again.
8 years after our first was born, our son came along. I can honest say that it is the best decision we ever made! We feel so incredibly lucky, and I count my blessings over and over!
A handful of people know how he came about, but not my parents.... yet. We always planned to tell any children how they were conceived, but at 3 he's still too young to fully grasp the idea.
We've spent around £22 thousand on fertility treatment over the years, but don't regret a single penny. Our clinic was fantastic, we used their egg share programme, which offers a shorter waiting time, maybe something you could look into?

If my child wants to find their genetix heritage when they are old enough to decide then i will help them, and it will never be a secret

Yes my family is reasonably mixed too. However I have to say that ds looks quite like me and very like my dad.
Dh looks like his dad too.
But some of the other grandchildren on dh's side don't look like their parents or the grandparents in any way that I can see.
I think most people, presuming race the same, would just assume the child took after a grandparent or aunt maybe and wouldn't outright say anything. Would they? I wouldn't anyway.

What is an egg share programme? They split between seven people?
I think we will need donor sperm too.

We feel very left in the dark by our clinic but maybe there aren't any answers to give.
They say I have good egg reserve, high antral follicle count and I ovulate every 28 days. But obviously that doesn't show egg quality.

Sleeps, I can totally relate to your post where you talked about feeling conflicted. I won't bore you with my long story and in any case we stopped trying many years ago (gay relationship so different but similarly fraught with moral dilemas). In the end we decided to stick with our 1 lovely dd. It was very, very hard but I don't regret that decision.

You sound as though you have thought this through very thoroughly. I wish you luck with whatever you decide. Neither you or your mum is BU really.

I understand how you feel about feeling "left in the dark" the other clinics we tried just kept trying the same things over and over again. The Marques seemed interested in actually finding answers

Not between seven people- between several!

Thank you to everyone who has wished us well.

It's such a hard decision. Even if we go for it it's only 50:50. Dh is all for it but he doesn't stop and think. He does stuff and worries later.
When I told my mom her face just dropped. I don't think I've ever seen her look so horrified.

I feel so sad about it all. I can't bring myself to look at photos of us from a couple of years back because that's when we were happy.
I do feel it's ruined my life, which I know is awful because I'm lucky enough to have ds. Even if we go for this and conceive it's still not an easy path. I think whatever the resolution this will always stay with me.

I doubt myself all the time as well, its such a hard decision. I keep thinking is it going to bother me when people say things like " oh he/she looks like you/dh" when obviuously that wont be true. Ultimatly this is our only chance to be parents, we are open to adoption but its a difficult path due to where we like(non uk)

Maybe you just get used to it?
My friend has an adopted daughter who is actually very close in appearance to get adoptive mother. When she told me her daughter was adopted my first (thick) comment was 'but she looks so much like you!' And she really does. Otoh the child may have no physical resemblance at all. It's impossible to know.

My cousin was adopted at birth and he does somehow look like his dad, he moves like him, talks like him ect there is no physical resemblence as such but they do look alike, Im not explaining that very well but it really is uncanny. He also smiles just like his Mum.

It sounds as if you are just assuming that there's an issue with your eggs, but there's no evidence for that at all. Would to it be easier, and less ethically troubling all around, to look into donor sperm?

It's OK to have one child OP

You may like millions of others, myself included, just have to get used to it.

Your existing child will suffer damaging feelings of inadequacy if this continues long term.

Don't care if I get flamed - this is AIBU.