To be seriously considering using donor embryos?

[Sleepswithbutterflies]

My mother thinks I am. She thinks I should be happy I've got ds and just move on.

She said:

1. she won't feel the same about a donor embryo grandchild as she does ds.
2. we are taking a huge gamble as loads of things could go wrong.
3. the child will want to find it's 'real' family (won't be possible as will be done in Spain where the donor is anonymous)
4. the child won't ever fit in properly.
5. children conceived with donor eggs get cancer (I am not sure where she's had this from as I cannot find any source to back this up.)
6. we are playing 'god' and it is morally wrong.
7. I won't bond with the child because it won't be mine.

We do have a ds but have been trying for a second child for two years. We have tried ivf but it has failed. I don't want to adopt. I want to get to be pregnant and have a newborn. Is that really selfish?

We don't really have any options left apart from to try donor embryos. Which obviously may not even work.
Aibu to want to try?

Sleeps, I really feel for you.

For what it's worth I feel there is absolutely nothing wrong with using donated eggs, sperm, embryos, whatever, I just don't.

Right to have a child - I think there is a right there, in fact. Admittedly in history 'barren' (horrible word!) women didn't have the option of fertility treatment but adoption of babies was in all honesty as far as i can gather fairly straightforward! Now that isn't the case of course.

I often think the bigger deal you in general make of something the bigger deal a child will. Be honest by all means but then move on. I may have to use donor sperm and I will be honest with the child but I'm not going to go on and on about it!

My clinic said that there may be a problem with the eggs because the embryos were slow or it could be caused by the fact the sperm are not great. Icsi usually gets round this but they said that even the more normal sperm had odd head features, which is where the DNA is carried.

They said they couldn't tell the egg quality and that if we were looking to replace the egg or sperm it was hard to say which would be most beneficial to us. They said we could replace the sperm and still have the same problem. That was after cycle one. Haven't seen anyone this time yet, the embryologist said the eggs looked fine though. But they can't tell if they are chromosomally abnormal just by looking.
The embryos didnt fragment, they were just slowish. Only 2 out of the 7 fertilised eggs were where they should be by day 3.

Well go to the clinic and ask for the relevent tests, then you can make a decision with all the facts. It really will help. the tests we had done were worth every penny

Sleeps, there is nothing wrong with your plans at all. When I was in a similar position years ago I don't thing embryo donation was a choice. We wanted another baby so much I started off down the adopt from China route that was possible then. I know a few people who did adopt from China and Vietnam, their children have grown up perfectly well adjusted as part of their families, and that is one step further removed from an "entirely our own" baby than actually being the biological but not genetic mother.

Fortunately for me, just as I had given up all hope DS2 showed up, but I would have been delighted with a baby from a donor embryo, adoption, just about anywhere by then and would have loved them just the same.

YANBU

In some ways good you are so open as to discuss with your mother - but on other hand think many would have just picked donor embryo with similar physical traits and just keep quite about it etc. if you want to be open and honest the third point your mother makes is important - but it's a personal decision. I know a number of women who have done this (as result of early menopause) but most have been v discreet and not told people full story etc

Sleeps, firstly, don't worry about worrying, iyswim. All these doubts are so totally normal but it doesn't help matters having your mum put her unnecessary 5 cents worth it. It's not her who is trying to get pregnant so she will never understand.

I have a ds from egg donation after one miserably failed attempt at ivf with my own eggs which didn't even get past the swimming phase as I only produced one egg!!! There was no hesitation in our past to go straight to donation. The whole pregnancy and birth phase took away any doubts I might have had about who the mother really is. We too had it done in Spain but will for sure be telling ds when he's ready about some amazing lady who helped mummy have her baby.

I agree with a pp who said that it doesn't sound like you should rule out using your own eggs. Make sure you get your amh levels tested. If your dp is happy to go with donor sperm, I able ways think that must be hardest as really he has no physical role in the whole process so may feel disconnected. Definitely recommend the donor conception network plus there are children's books to share with your children to help them understand.

Good luck on your exciting journey..

I forgot to mention, dp and I have been totally honest and open with both our families. A few of my close friends know, some colleagues know it was an assisted conception but no more details and I'm always honest and open with paediatrician etc. I'm in no way ashamed of my child's route into this world, in fact I'm quite proud of it. It makes him even more precious to us and no one who knows it has ever had any issue at all. I fact the more you talk about it, the more others open up and tell you they used ivf etc. It's more common than you think!!

YANBU but I think it may be worth a go with donor sperm as well.

I don't think there is anything wrong with using donor embryos. However, I do think it's unfair on the resulting child not to have a chance to find out (if it wants to) who its biological parents are.

I think you owe it to any child conceived through donor eggs, sperm etc to have that information open to them. Those that have donated in the UK are clearly not scared of "having an 18 year old turn up on the doorstep" or they wouldn't have donated, but it doesn't mean they want to steal your child back off you.

Knowing one's heritage is a vital part of understanding your origins and what makes you you. For that reason, I think getting embryos from the UK where they are not anonymous is far fairer on the child.

My clinic said there was no way to test egg quality. I've never had my Amh tested. I don't even really know what it is - will google!

YANBU. I know this is a completely different situation but DH and I have 2 nieces. One is genetically his and one is genetically mine. We've seen "my" niece once and "his" niece at least every week, usually more, mostly due to distance. "His" niece is a lot more similar to our children than "mine" in personality etc which I think shows that nurture and raising a child is just as important as genetics.

I know I mentioned it on another thread but I'd also consider looking at the Fertilityfriends forum (UK site, not US one of a similar name), which has lots of boards for assisted conception etc and lots of members with years (sadly!) of experience who are all really helpful. They have specific threads for say over 40s with low amh, or people trying naturally or those going to Spanish clinics and so on.

Op do you have diabetes?
I was reading lots of blood gluose rises during stims dont do the eggs much good.
Also has your tsh (thyroid) been checked?
We have v low sperm count but icsi did work for us .

Its not really up to your parents but it wouldnt be good if they treat the kids differently. It might be better if they dont know for sure.

My thyroid is fine.

I am diabetic but my control was excellent during treatment and is generally excellent anyway. My glucose results were normal.

Is tsh below 2 or 2.5 which is what is now recommended?
Could you have insulin resistance (or would this male your ovaries polycystic?)

Oops that should say make

From everything you've said your clinic sounds awful. One of the major factors for success of IVF or fet apparently is the skill of the dr doing the transfer. There are some fab clinics around (some with really high success rates even in older couples). I would definitely recommend getting a 2nd opinion and more testing on eggs before going for embryo donation. Sperm donation is cheaper, easier in the uk to find a donor and potentially less tricky all round for resulting child than full on embryo donation. Thinking of you, so many difficult decisions, look into and speak to the donor conception network before taking any decisions.

I'd definitely second the recommendation of the Fertility Friends website. I made lots of friends on there and it's so supportive. There are women who are going through every possible infertility issue.

AMH is anti-mullerian hormone. My gp in the UK had never heard of it either but it's a good indication of the quantity of eggs you have remaining, doesn't explain quality though. It was one if the first things my clinic in Spain tested.

There are some first account stories doing the rounds in Australia at the moment of children (now adults) born to anonymous donors who have no hope of finding our about their genetic heritage due to records being withheld/destroyed. It's quite an emotional blow for them.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with the donor embryo at all - to me this is the same as adopting a child (OK, not quite the same, because a child is a real person and an embryo is just a collection of cells, in my view). However, I think that you need to consider how that person might feel later when they are unable to trace their biological roots.
When you look at yourself (assuming you were not adopted and know both parents), you can see your mother's eyes, your father's nose, auntie X's curly hair. Sure, the things you say and your mannerisms may come from how and who brought you up and this is a huge part of who we are. But we also need as humans to know where our roots are - why do I have those huge ears, how come my skin is different from Mums - ah, that'll be your grandfather etc.
Don't dismiss how it would feel as an adult to not be able to have that choice to discover the missing bits of the jigsaw.
Do consider an open embryo adoption.

I think it's a shame to ruin your life over only having one child. I think give it a try with donor if that's what you want to do but you may have to accept one day that you will only have one child. As I'm in that position (though I admit I don't have fertility issues, just no partner and no money) I can't really empathise with the desperate need to have another. Sure, it makes me sad at times that DS will have no siblings as I did, and I get the biological craving to be pregnant but logically, head over heart, I feel so blessed to have my son, I have experienced pregnancy, birth, newborn and I get to be a mother so I am lucky.
Comparison is the thief of joy.

Which clinic have you been with and have you considered changing in the UK. We went to Care in Manchester and they were incredible. Amazing. Incredible. It took us eight attempts. EIGHT. But they tweeked and changed and played with the plans and did tests and gave unusual combinations of drugs and I believed in them. Totally. They were amazing.
If your clinic did not make you feel like that then go and visit some other clinics.
With the first clinic we were at I felt sick as I walked through the doors. With these I felt calm every time we arrived.
When we had tests done it was the consultant himself that would ring to tell us the results. When we'd been particularly anxious he'd call a few days later to check on me.

We have considered changing but we are also aware that we don't have funds that will go on forever.
What if we go to a new clinic and the same thing happens? I really wish we hadn't had a second attempt at my current clinic because I wasn't wildly thrilled with how they were during the first cycle. We only saw the consultant twice both cycles - once on egg collection and one on embryo transfer. This time round he did my egg collection on the Friday and we went back on the Monday for transfer and he couldn't even remember who I was or doing my egg collection. It didn't inspire a huge level of confidence. Feels very conveyor belt like. We were on holiday when I got my negative result so I just rang it in and gave it to the receptionist and I haven't heard from anyone since!

It might be worth changing if the costs to do so are fine (I had frozen embryos at my clinic so would've had to transport them if I changed). Look up the success rates at the HFEA site - find out what tests they do. Don't be afraid to email them or ring with Qs - if you are paying then you deserve better than conveyor belt treatment (well you do regardless really!).

I stayed at my clinic (Hammersmith) because it had moderately better results than one close to me (one in Herts), and because I'd have had to pay to transport embies and to redo some tests, but tbh Hammersmith (though it has worked for us) is very conveyor belty (might depend on the consultant though) and there was no difference in NHS vs private treatment.