To talk about my children

[lemonfolly]

I've been home a couple of hours from the worst birthday celebration ever...

Went out with my girls, was some weird drama in the air all night. Culminated in my very good friend exploding with rage at everyone for talking about our children. Kid talk was probably 25% of the discussion all night and 75% of us have children. Other discussions were work, family, men, gossip, pets etc etc

Friend who exploded has said they have had enough of us talking about our kids. Was actually off and rude all night before this happened. Said friend talks about her job and pet which we all obligingly listen to. Whilst I know it must be annoying to talk about kids, if that's our lives and we only discuss it for a small portion of the evening, is it really that awful? I get it must be pretty hurtful if you want kids and don't have them. I try to keep my conversation in check for that reason, but sometimes i have fuck all to say if I didn't talk about them. I don't want to drift apart because I can't talk about my life too, but that looks like the way it may have to go.

I must add, it's my birthday, and the whole night was ruined by the general moodiness and outburst. I feel guilty for being a mum, talking about my kids, and angry that my friend can't be more selfless for one fucking night. AIBU?

Her behaviour was terrible, I'm sorry it spoiled your birthday celebration. Is this out of character for her? Maybe she having a really hard time at the moment (being desperate for a baby but not in a position to have one must be painful) and with the addition of alcohol things got out of hand. What is the friendship like normally? I guess she must have good points to be your friend, you've given examples of the considerate things you've done for her but is this normally reciprocated? Maybe she's sat at home now feeling hung-over and guilty, hope she apologises and you can move forwards with your friendship (if there's enough positives for it to be one worth working at.)

YANBU, but like many pp, I have been where your friend seems to be. Desperate to have a baby, and massively resentful of those who did. I used to glare at people on the tube who were telling their kids off
I was all smugly 'when I have the PRECIOUS GIFT OF A CHILD I shall cherish it every day'.

It took us five months to conceive. Five months. Now, obviously this makes me impatient (and v lucky), but I posted to illustrate how much your usual rational thinking goes out the window when the clock starts ticking. I knew six months is the normal time it takes to conceive. I did. I just WANTED A BABY NOW. It makes you insane.

This doesn't mean your friend is right to have screamed and had a go at you, but just remember she may have want-a-baby-insane-itis.

No, you weren't BU OP your friend was. I am single (with dc) whilst all my friends are married. If i don't feel like listening to them whine about their partners shortcomings for the millionth time I simply make my excuses not to meet up at that particular time. Your friend acted like a stroppy teenager and should apologise.
If she can't handle her friends talking about their lives then she needs to find some new, single friends. You shouldn't have to censor what you're saying around your friends.

I would be so worried about them if one of my friends had a reaction like this. But then I'm not 6 and don't need to stomp my feet because it's my special day.

Seriously if she is not normally like this I would be trying to help her not complain about my birthday.

"I can't not talk about my kids". Yes you can. You just don't want to.

Which is fine, and you were obviously self-aware enough to rein it in a bit in view of her sensitivities, even before she made them so plain.

The correct thing for your friend to have done would have been to say politely, "you know, I'm feeling pretty rotten at the moment about not being in a position to have children. I'm happy for you all but do you think we could change the subject", and then perhaps for her to think twice about future gatherings with women who are mothers.

The scale and intensity of her outburst suggests she is struggling emotionally at the moment and perhaps it wasn't that you were talking too much about the kids on this occasion, it's just that she felt like it was a recurring theme at all your gatherings and she lost the plot.

Rather than feeling guilty about talking about your own life, which includes your children, the way forward would be to ask her what you can do to help. However if she continues to be rude and in any way suggests it's your fault, ditch her.

YANBU but I think a lot of us can relate to being in the wrong place emotionally, getting pissed and then making an arse out of ourselves. I bet she feels rotton this morning. If she is not usually like this I would just send a message asking how she is and go from there.

I was the childless one for years with my friends and although the child talk didn't upset me, it is really dull when you don't have kids. As the above poster said, you don't HAVE to talk about them, you choose to- which is fine but others may get pissed off with it.

Thanks for everyone's views.

To be clear I apologised in person last night, I text and again apologised for being insensitive. I did not demand an apology from her Ihatefootball

I was not stamping my feet about my birthday. I actually didn't even want to go out. Said friend persuaded me to but was rude from the minute we got out. I think booze was consumed before she got out. I think there are some issues she needs support on.

When I say I can't not talk about my kids. I mean I won't really have much to chat about. Of course I can not do that, but it will mean a natrual dwindling of friendship as I would have to rehearse topics of conversation. I speak to this person daily, so it would be pretty tough 'how was your weekend' fine ' what did you do?' Err nothing.

I spent over a year ttc, I know it's emotionally hard. She is not currently ttc but would like to in theory.

I think it's fine to offer an olive branch or to say you're sorry she got upset but I don't think you should have felt you had to apologise if you didn't think you had been insensitive (and I don't think you were by the sounds of it). I think the ball's in her court now, she should apologise for her behaviour. If she's struggling at the moment then you can support her but don't be a doormat. Your friendship is going to be pretty one sided and stilted if you can't talk about your DC and if she's a true friend she'll realise this when she's calmed down.

Hi Lemon. Happy birthday. No Y.N.B.U. to talk about your children. No parent in the world should feel like they can't speak about their pride and joys. but your friend probably thinks you're trying to rub her nose in it and making her feel inferior, absolutey I know that's not the case and you certainly no that's not the case. However, I've been where your friend is prior to being blessed with d.d and because I wanted a baby so much thought everyone who did have dc were laughing at me sounds very dramatic now but jealousy does strange things things to a person.
Your friend was being unreasonable for ruining your night but it looks like it had been building up all for a long time. I'm sorry your night out was ruined.
In wouldn't mind betting though your friend is sitting there mortified and embarrased about her behavior.

It sounds like you really don't have anything left in common. I have a group of friends who are parents at school. We have lots of nights out and we only met through our children. We never really talk about them away from the playground.

I don't have to think in advance about what to talk about because they are friends. From your last post it sounds like you have drifted apart anyway.

It does sound like this is actually a massive issue for her, more so than had been appreciated previously (probably by her as well!)

Maybe if you can use it as a catalyst to talk, really really talk, about her wanting a baby then you could become closer as a result.

I really feel for her, mid thirties, single and wanting a baby is a horrible lonely place to be. I have my own fertility issues and do struggle to keep it together so I feel for her.

It's not on for her to be badly behaved on your birthday night out but hopefully it can be resolved and some good can come of it.

To be honest she's usually really really good fun, and I LOVE spending time with her. She was not on form last night, she was off, grumpy and rude before the outburst. She's apologised too, is embarrassed and blamed booze. Just going to be a bit more sensitive about the kid chat, but if I can't talk about them,I definitely don't think I can stay close friends, it would take so much effort and i know that would naturally cause us to drift.

Hope all you ladies ttc or yearning for a child are ok. Didn't mean to upset anyone.

Oh dear! You all have the right to talk about what you want to talk about. Does she really want kids and can't have them?

The problem with motherhood is that it takes up every waking hour, and when you can't talk about that sometimes there isn't much to talk about.

I've found myself biting my lip so many times and not saying what I want to say because I know that it won't be interesting to other people. I don't mind it too much, there are people who are interested in that side of my life.

Do you want to mend this friendship? Is it worth sending a semi apology and saying let's talk?

Or do you just feel like blowing her off?

Maybe you can compromise?

She said she couldn't take it anymore, the talk about children was fucking her off, it was constant, that she felt outside of it, lonely etc. at said time she screamed, demanded to get out of car, was crying and said she hated us. Quite dramatic.

Very dramatic!
Had she had a lot to drink? Even if she had, I'd still be quite unimpressed by that little display of temper.

I wouldn't care if she's sad and lonely and wants a baby or whatever, shouting that she hates you, simply for having kids to talk about, is so childish and rude, I'd lose all respect.

Well she's apologised and seemingly this has been building up for a while and she feels desperately lonely and isolated. I'm saddened that some people feel they can't be friends under these circumstances as motherhood is so all consuming. Surely if you generally find her good fun you must have other common ground?

Glad she apologised. She needed to.

It sounds like the friendship was good before this incident so I hope you can salvage it. I think relationships never work when resentments are allowed to fester though and it sounds like your friend had been nursing this one for a while. Equally I know that if talking about my dc was a taboo topic with any of my friends I'd start to become resentful, once the dust has settled could you too meet up and have a clear the air session?

I think you might be underestimating how painful this is for her. You tried for a year to ttc but got there in the end and had dc. She still has not got dc and isn't in a position to. When you're ttc you have hope each month. At the moment your friend does not.

When you are talking about your children do you all include her? Even though she doesn't have children she can still join in with her thoughts etc. Also, do you make positive statements about her wanting a baby such as 'when you have children do you think you'd do this' etc?

With my group of friends I never counted in the conversation because I was single and childless. They just chatted amongst each other, asking each other questions and, probably unconsciously, completely cut me out. I would have liked to join in conversations about children's names, parenting styles, schools etc but I was never asked and usually subtly dismissed if I did try to join in.

I would have liked to chat about my cat but didn't because I would never give anyone the opportunity to pour scorn on me as has been highlighted in this thread. Typical stereotypes of sad singleton talking about her cat.

If you're totally confident she is included and not excluded in conversations then that's fine. I would still cut her some slack, because the sadness she will feel re her position is probably devastating.

If you value her friendship, maybe 121s are the best way forward for now where you can both chat about what's important to you.

I hope things change for your friend and she gets her family.

Aside from your night out disaster I hope you had a happy birthday.

Yep dramatic! But that's what you get with people who on the flip side are hilariously fun. Everyone has foibles.

It's not that I would chose to end a friendship over biting my lip on kid talk. It's just that I know it would naturally dwindle. They take up so much time and energy already.

One person does not get to dictate the subject matter or change it when the majority are engaged with it quite happily and it's a perfectly normal civilised conversation

Hope you had a good birthday, it was my birthday yesterday as well

Patience -you're probably right, I was until last night. I was background aware but not quite how much it was was affecting her.

To be honest I think wistfully back to my days of child free singledom. Lazing in bed all day on the weekend, full nights sleep, going out when I want. You can't ever appreciate how free that was until you have kids, and you can't go back and appreciate once you do. This means I'm probably slightly jealous of her freedom, which makes me less sensitive to her yearning. I need to keep that in check and remember back to how I felt pre DCs and single.

I must be jolly intolerant then, because behaviour like that is not a 'flip side' I'd be willing to put up with from anyone over the age of 16.
I have hilariously fun friends as well, and none of them share that little foible.

Thanks Needs! HB to you too

Ha Pictish! I hear you... But I'm not perfect either.

All the LTB on mumsnet shocks me sometimes. Maybe I have a really low bar on somethings

I would not assume that she doesn't have fertility issues. Perhaps she's recently found out that she's entered into early menopause? Or got checked out prior to considering having a child through donor sperm and been told that her chances are low?

Many many people do not tell all and sundry about their fertility issues, it doesn't mean that they don't exist.