To talk about my children

[lemonfolly]

I've been home a couple of hours from the worst birthday celebration ever...

Went out with my girls, was some weird drama in the air all night. Culminated in my very good friend exploding with rage at everyone for talking about our children. Kid talk was probably 25% of the discussion all night and 75% of us have children. Other discussions were work, family, men, gossip, pets etc etc

Friend who exploded has said they have had enough of us talking about our kids. Was actually off and rude all night before this happened. Said friend talks about her job and pet which we all obligingly listen to. Whilst I know it must be annoying to talk about kids, if that's our lives and we only discuss it for a small portion of the evening, is it really that awful? I get it must be pretty hurtful if you want kids and don't have them. I try to keep my conversation in check for that reason, but sometimes i have fuck all to say if I didn't talk about them. I don't want to drift apart because I can't talk about my life too, but that looks like the way it may have to go.

I must add, it's my birthday, and the whole night was ruined by the general moodiness and outburst. I feel guilty for being a mum, talking about my kids, and angry that my friend can't be more selfless for one fucking night. AIBU?

Yes we were all agent!

Though we're all mums, so that's why I posted here. I wanted to see if we were wrong. She is upset, I get that. However it was my birthday, she was rude all night, and I cannot help having children. I don't want her upset nor isolated though. I feel bad life moving on creates such voids.

But child talk is boring though. I've always managed to avoid it with my mummy friends. We don't ignore the fact they have children , but it's easy enough to find other interesting things to talk about. Maybe you have all just grown apart.

I think if you know it's a sensitive issue you could all try and support her for a short amount of time and give her the benefit of the doubt.

Ihopeyousteponlego... Sorry I missed your message originally. I'm so sorry this os sensitive for you too. It's good to hear from another perspective. It must drive you mad. Wishing you a happy ending x

But if you think about how she normally behaves, was it out of the ordinary?

If it was then maybe you need to take it more seriously than if she's a known drama llama.

Marnie - when I say child talk its normally to commiserate about sleepless night, appalling tantrums, funny things etc. I don't bang on about amazing achievements, it's all humorous. I also talk about other parts of my life too. What do you talk about that completely avoids any talk of children? How old are your kids?

I find my friends with kids at 8-9 plus, don't talk too much about them. Friends with kids under 5 talk much more about them.

Agent - it's rare to see her like this. She's usually life and soul but with occasional blips. That's why I know she meant it

I don't find child talk boring, I am always interested in my friends lives, that includes children as well as husbands as well as travel, politics and so on. What's the point of having good friends if you can't share your life, ideas, troubles, fun with them?

I had one person be like this with me, they went very tense and weird if I ever mentioned my dd1. I had to pretend she didn't exist. Clearly it was about their own issues with having children. The damage was done though, even though they went on to have their own children it was never quite the same as I remembered how they weren't interested in mine and actively pretended they didn't exist. The friendship just couldn't be recovered.

I have lots of child-free or friends who have much older children, in the main we all chat about our relatives, children, partners, jobs, friends and so on, the stuff of everyday lives. What are these topics that are so much more interesting? The last time I got stuck with some professors talking about philosophy I was bored silly.

I did once have a friend who was having difficulty conceiving ask if she could body-swerve meeting up with the kids, too upsetting for her. She was so honest, of course it was no issue.

Perhaps your friend has been resentful for quite a while. Not sure where you go from here, she doesn't want to hear your child talk and you don't want to have to exclude talking about your children. I would have a chat to her when she's sober and see if you can get to the bottom of it. It may be your lives have just parted company.

You could talk to her and ask her if everything is ok with her, but should also point out that you are disappointed in her for that behaviour.
She should be apologising over it anyway, regardless of what is going on in her life, particularly if she hasn't talked to you about it.

It sounds like this has been building for aaaages TBH. I mean, who in their right mind would really pick a friend's birthday to explode all over? I would be mortified. She may have form for being a drama queen but I am sure as the day is long that she did not sit around beforehand and think "Hmm. Lemon's birthday. How can I make it all about MEEEEEE?"

Do you ever talk for real about her yearning for a baby? Has she considered going it alone?

I agree she should apologise though!

Do all of you have partners or husbands as well as the children OP? Because in that case it's not just kids you are talking about, it's families and that must be very hard to take indeed for someone who openly (if a little dramatically) admits to being lonely.

She shouldn't have lost her temper like that, of course, especially as it was your birthday.

However, I rarely talk about my DDs if there are people around who don't have children. I think it's possible to underestimate just how boring it can be to others. But it doesn't stop some parents though. I have been out on occasions where I have heard every minute detail of the child's life/toilet/sleeping habits etc.. It astounds me - these parents never ask me about my children, so it's like they don't exist, the only children who count are their own.

But it sounds like you got the balance of conversation right. I hope she apologises.

she sounds unhinged!

She sounds pissed!

My guess is that it all got in top of her (the wanting a baby schizz) and she got pissed and had an outburst.

She'll be mortified I reckon and either apologise or try and sweep it under the carpet.

As she doesn't normally do things like this, sounds like she got to the end of her tether and a few drinks tipped her over the edge, if she's miserable about being single, childless and her cat being sick (if she lives alone then her cat may feel like "all she has"), then hearing about other people's kids might make her very upset indeed. I don't excuse her behaviour, she ruined your birthday, but I maybe the problem is not what you were talking about, but her feeling sad.

Like a pp said, sometimes this is a little blub in the toilet but, after a few drinks this could have escalated into silliness.

If she's a close friend maybe you should try and speak to her: she didn't just say "I hate you. Stop talking about your kids" she also said "I feel lonely and isolated" (which sounds like the real problem IYSWIM). Give her the opportunity to apologise but even a call/text to say "you went off on one, are you ok?" is probably the sort of outreach that will help her feel less left out.

I might be projecting, I've been there (post MC a couple of years ago) and found myself being snappy with pregnant people at work every time they breathed a word about it (no screaming, but no booze involved either) - I knew I was being U but emotions took over.

Are you sure it was only 25% of the time?

I have been your friend (single, desperate to have a family) and over the years have listened to my closest group of friends talk children 90% of the time we meet up. I have listened, cared and been interested. I can't say the same has been extended to me though...

I have started distancing myself now.

If it's out of character for her I would cut her some slack and have a chat to her about it. She should probably dip out of group meet ups (at least until her situation changes) because you shouldn't have to temper your child talk...

Her persecution of how much you talk about them is probably a little screwed. When you are annoyed by something you will pick up on it more.

I do wonder though if this is a bigger issue for you than you are aware of, I would check in with her and she if she wants to talk about also gives her the chance to say sorry

A few years ago I was in the position of your friend (sounds like, have skimmed the thread). Desperate to have kids, but single etc. I wonder if what to you seems 25 per cent chat about kids actually is a whole lot more, in terms of her cumulative mini or individual chats within the group. Someone exploding like that is obviously not in a great place emotionally and a bit raw. I get that it's your birthday, but sometimes it's not all about you and people's pain triggers strong reactions, esp when combined with alcohol. Children are one of those topics especially that can trigger strong emotions, esp if you are childless or single. So what may seem a small Amount of innocuous comments about your kids is like chewing glass for her.
I remember quite vividly what sounds like a similar night out with some friends, the only difference was that I saved my tears for the taxi so didn't embarrass myself, or open myself upto further criticism from friends or smug judgements. Hope your friend is ok.

I think she owes you an apology. Talking about any one subject all night would be tedious, but you assure us that wasn't the case. Her tantrum on your birthday was unacceptable. If you don't think you can tone down baby/children talk any further, it's difficult to see this relationship continuing.

Fwiw I have been the friend TTC without success and have (I hope) listened about other people's children and pregnancies. Now I am pregnant, I avoid ramming it down the throat of anyone who might find it difficult.

Just read about reaction ....scream getting out of car etc. If that was a good friend of mine I'd be very worried about her. If its not like her to behave like that then I'd be making sure she was ok.

If she can't have kids then maybe listening to others talk about their own is totally painful. Maybe she couldn't take it anymore.
Just a thought.

You say you know "she meant it" ..... If that's the case, then I'd be worried there's actually something (else) wrong. (Assuming this isn't just a drunken outburst)

Yeah ok we can all talk a bit too much about stuff that's not relevant or interesting to someone else, whether it's your, the baby's or the cat's sleeping habits
Friendships surely are about a balance - you're unlikely to have exact the same mix of relationship / child / family / work / health / money / hobby going on as everyone else, so inevitably the balance of conversation will be different each time, each person. Trick is finding the balance when it's constantly changing.

For whatever reason(s), she obviously thought the balance was a bit skewed. Question is, is she a good enough friend for you to put the effort into finding out why?

I think YOU sound like a completely unsympathetic friend. She is obviously very distraught about not having children, and that evening pushed her over the edge. If she has no form for doing this, I bet she felt on the edge and is obviously disparate for children but hasn't shared this with you and so exploded unfortunately while you were out. Can you not see she must have been very upset, which you were completely oblivious too.

She must not be completely mortified and embarrassed and dreaded seeing and speaking to you and the others. A good friend would ask her how she is and she was obviously upset and does she need to talk about it, not demand an apology. You have probably never felt desperate for a child and how awful that makes you feel.

I think that if she's rarely like this, as you say, she is probably a good enough friend to just hide her misery much of the time for your sake. It can be hard always to be pleased for others about things that you long for yourself.

Sounds as though she's just monumentally at the end of her tether. Appalling timing that it all came to a head on your birthday. She's probably now feeling horribly ashamed and selfish on top of whatever other negative feelings triggered the outburst

If she's historically a good friend, contact her with an easy going text: "Are you ok? Do you want to talk?" If she's feeling bad, your sympathy should dispel her anger, prompt an apology from her, and mend your friendship. If she continues to be off with you, then at least you know you have tried your very best and it is her being unreasonable.

Ihatefootball, completely unsympathetic friend? Have you read the same thread as me?

1. It was the OP's birthday, not her friend's. The focus of the evening should have been the OP. The friend behaved badly and spoiled the evening, probably because she had too much to drink and quite possibly because she is a drama queen in general. She should apologise.

1. If the friend is becoming so miserable about being single and childless that she can't behave herself in a normal manner around people with children, she should have stayed away. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh. There was a time when it looked as if we wouldn't be able to have children. I remember vividly how awful that was as it was all I had ever wanted. However, if it had come to that we would have had to learn to live with it and continue to behave decently around people who did have children. Having a misfortune doesn't give a person licence to behave like a twat.

1. The OP clearly is a sympathetic friend. She sat and listened to her friend talking about her sick cat at some length, which is a lot more than I would have done, and she supported her friend through getting a new job etc etc.

1. The OP made efforts not to talk exclusively about her children but in any gathering of people who have young children common sense dictates that there's going to be a lot of talk about sleep, nappies and so forth. Again, if you can't cope with that, you don't go.

I have had a friendship fizzle out for this reason. My friend is late 30s & single but would love to meet someone & have children. I am conscious of this and it had been an excellent friendship but after having been explicitly told not to talk about the children, DP (whether in a positive or a negative note as even having a moan about him was something she couldn't join in with) or my job (we spent 5 yrs doing very similar things but she changed career & told me she had no interest in mine any more as it wasn't relevant to her), I found myself "revising" before meeting up with her by watching programmes I thought she would watch, getting book recommendations from her before we met up so I could read those all so I had something to talk about. And meet ups always had to be at her beck & call. What finally killed the friendship was when went to the theatre to see a play of her choosing as she didn't have anyone to go with whereas I had DP (ignoring the fact that the two of us, who lived outside London, wouldn't be able to afford to go) and, during the 45mins pre theatre meal I had to see over 20 photos of her cat, read the profiles & discuss the pros & cons of the 3 or 4 people she was in contact from Internet dating that month & hear all about the office politics in her company.
I have other friends who would similarly like to meet someone, others who are in relationships & child free either through choice or due to fertility issues. They all tale a polite interest in the DC eg. ask if DC1 is off to school in September &, if so, is she excited to which I say yes & then turn the conversation so we end up discussing our memories of starting school, comparing sewing skills, which bits of our education have ended up being of use & which a complete waste of time etc.

I'm guessing that this has been building for a long time and she just blew last night. My sister used to talk about her kids an awful lot when I was single and childless but I let it wash over me. But it was very, very boring to listen to. Later when I did have kids someone left our book group because they felt we talked about our kids too much and it was boring for them.

When I go on mums nights out even I'm bored talking about kids sometimes!

I agree with pp a "are you ok? Do you want to talk!" Text would be good.