Flicking an unknown child for throwing rocks at terrapins

[Rafterplease]

I'm sitting in a pub and we are discussing an AIBU of one of the group.

Here's the scenario:

L is in Greece. There's a park with a pool and terrapins in it. A kid - roughly seven - is throwing rocks at the terrapins. The kid is blond but probably Greek. L is standing next to the kid and, fairly gently, instinctively flicks the kid with the back of her hand and says (in English) 'don't do that'. There was no parent in sight. The kid ran away.

L just didnt think, acted totally on instinct. She feels very guilty about doing this. Should she be beating herself up over it?

A flick is NOT a smack, slap or punch. Perfectly reasonable to stop the little shit hurting defenceless animals.

For those screaming "child abuse" - cop on to yourselves, really.

Hear hear BMW6

Greece isn't particularly hot on animal cruelty of course. If L hadn't intervened I'm not sure anyone else would have.
I suspect this particular little horror needed a short sharp intervention not prolonged explanations and affectionate handwringing.And yes, I'm far less concerned about him than I am about the animals in this situation.

The term 'flick' is I think deliberately vague and some posters are interpreting it is little more than a stroke with the back of the hand and others, like myself, are cynically supposing it could have been a lot more than that.

'not herself' is also vague. It could mean that she was drunk.

Cruelty to animal is not to be tolerated but nor is cruelty to children. There were other options that could have been used but the lazy 'flick of the back of the hand' was chosen.

The child was frightened and ran away. In what universe is frightening a child a good thing?

Finally, at the risk of repeating myself, would a flick of the back of the hand have been used if it was a burly skinhead who was harming the wildlife?

I think the answer to that would be 'no' so why do it to a child.

Wrong on so many levels, as are all the posters calling a child abusive terms.

Of course BMW6 will probably now be criticised for calling the kid a little shit.

That's exactly how he behaved though.

Goodness Chopin you were fast off the mark.

In what universe? Well you asked. We don't know if he was actually frightened or simply ran off because he'd been told off but I think if he was a bit scared it might have taught him a lesson.

The child was frightened and ran away. In what universe is frightening a child a good thing?

In a universe where a child, who knows he's wrong to harm animals for amusement, sees he's been caught out.

Which universe do you live in?

Not herself?

Where in the OP does it say anything about that. And why on earth would it mean L was drunk.

How odd

"Not herself", which Rafters didn't say, is the argument for assuming L was drunk, as Rafters didn't say that.

Clear now?

The child ran away because he had received the short, sharp shock he so richly deserved for his actions.

There is no harm in the odd short, sharp shock. It can teach valuable lessons. It can in my universe anyway.

This is Mumsnet at its mumsnettiest

Garlic it appears that chopin inhabits a universe where every child needs protracted explanations and negotiations. Parents who use this type of approach breed the child who won't follow instructions at school without being told why on an individual level. Very wearing when it happens on a daily basis.

And this kid was a little shit.

hopefully if he was "frightened" he will think twice about doing it again - result hopefully and lesson learnt

I won't call a kid a little shit. But he was doing a shitty thing, got pulled up on it, and went somewhere else. All looks normal to me. I'm enjoying this extraordinarily strange conversation though.

And um I would act the same towards a 'skinhead' does having hair make you less thuggish then? As I would a kid.

I stood up for kittens once a bunch of much older teens were throwing around. I only managed to save one, I was 13.

I failed to save a nest of baby blackbirds.. They were thrown around trying to 'teach them to fly' and then stamped on.

As an adult, trust me I would have no problem in issuing some harsh language and a clout if I see it warranted.

Those who want to fuck about with gentle shit are talking out of their arses and have OBVIOUSLY never encountered abuse to another living thing for them to act on instinct, it's all very well saying what you would do if you've never encountered that instinct.

Anyway, he was frightening the terrapins by throwing rocks into their pool. So what if he was frightened by being pulled up on it. Perfectly justified.

Actually, what else would he have done but run away? He doesn't need to debate with a stranger about the whys & wherefores of terrapin-bombing. Were I the stranger, I would not be pulling out a conveniently multi-lingual book on turtle welfare for an improving talk. Game over, bugger off. It's perfect seven-year-old logic :)

It's pretty common practise to scarper when you have been found bothering terrapins, I would have thought.

Scarper! Haven't heard that for ages 'Just William' was always scarpering!

I was holidaying in Greece recently with my darling blonde son - he's such an angel and absolutly precious around all creatures, which is why he became enamoured with some adorable terrapins we had observed in a pretty little lake.

Anyway, he begged us to we let him stay at the terrapin lake on his own for a while, whilst his father and I enjoyed a short walk; of course we allowed this as he's so terribly grown up and can speak 4 languages (including Greek) and had his mobile should he need anything.

A short while later he came tearing up to us, his little eyes wide with fear - his heart was racing and he was trembling like a startled fawn.

It transpired that a crazy, drunken English lady had been throwing rocks at the terrapins - my blonde angel had pleaded with her to stop but she wouldn't, he threw himself prostrate at her feet and beseeched her to "Please, think of the amphibians/reptiles".

She did not. The crazy, drunken English lady punched him in the head, and screamed at him that she would throw rocks at him instead

We never did track her down . I had intended to gently remonstrate with her in a kind voice about her actions, but sadly twas not to be

Imagine my surprise, however, to discover this thread! Whereby the crazy drunken child abuser has sought to minimise her behaviour and actions, and cast my beautiful present from heaven as the aggressor

Scarlett that's genius.

Total side issue but I am interested that the parents in Mimsy's example are social workers. SWs who work with looked after children, children at risk, young offenders or in child protection services usually have extensive experience of engaging with children displaying challenging behaviour, and know how to deal with it effectively. They would of course be sacked for flicking them, rightly. They often also deliver parenting courses to help people learn effective ways of dealing with negative behaviour.

There are lots of types of social worker of course. Maybe Mimsy's friends work with older people, or adults with mental health issues, so aren't experienced with children - though there are usually transferable skills. Maybe they're newly qualified, or just not very good.

Or hey - maybe they're not social workers at all, but the stereotype fits really well with the exaggerated picture of parenting being portrayed?

*I stood up for kittens once a bunch of much older teens were throwing around. I only managed to save one, I was 13.

I failed to save a nest of baby blackbirds.. They were thrown around trying to 'teach them to fly' and then stamped on.*

Such wanton cruelty to animals never fails to shock me. There are people around who have no right to call themselves human beings. They are shits, whether adults or children.

Scarlett

It's one of the early indicators for sociopathy, Topsey. But not if the child's acting in ignorance. (And not a diagnosis in itself!)