to think that JL are perfectly within their rights to sell a hijab as part of 'school uniform' ranges?

[MaybeIAmJustNotReasonable]

John Lewis signed contracts to start a sale of hijabs within their school uniform range, having signed contracts with two schools in London and Liverpool. AIBU to think is actually okay, and we should accept the fact people can dress how they like, in terms with their religion?

I remember seeing some film of Cairo in the 1970s. I think only one or two women had their heads covered. Look now and every woman is wearing the hijab.

I do wonder if us liberal types are in danger of condoning an ever-stricter version of Islam which is being imposed and adopted by Muslim communities.

It's a tricky one, isn't it.

On the one hand as a feminist and an atheist I hate to see little girls singled out in this way by any religion ( although I am used to my point of view always being trumped by the need to avoid offence to various patriarchal religions) and I find it unsettling to think I may be guilty of thinking it's ok fir 'those' little girls to cover up, but not my own.

But I also believe in religious freedom. I have many Muslim colleagues and neighbours many of whom cover their heads and I've never thought twice about it apart from how nice some of the scarves are.

One of DD's friends came to school last term in a hijab. She's 6 years old. I found it really sad tbh.
She only wore it once though.

I find it hugely depressing, and I think schools are being cowardly about this.

Most schools have hard-and-fast rules about uniform, and come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who steps out of line - wrong haircut, skirt worn slightly too short etc. But then they suddenly make this massive exception for the hijab. Why? A uniform is a uniform - if you're going to start accommodating parents' religious preferences, then you might as well not bother having a uniform at all.

Sirzy: the wearing of the hijab and the practice of female genital mutilation is comparable because they are examples of female oppression. One is far more brutal than the other but they both stem from the same interpretation of a belief system. Which makes my question not at all a ridiculous one.

hackmum- so Jewish boys shouldn't be allowed to wear caps or Sikh boys turbans either? Or girl s from Christian sects those small headsets either?

Would you prefer rules like in French schools?

Or is just hijab that is an issue.... In which case why?

That is like saying wearing the kippah and circumcision are comparable then surely? So as I said before are you as against that?

People are missing two key things here firstly a lot of women and young girls make an informed choice that they wish to wear a hijab, just because it isn't what we would choose does that make it wrong?

Secondly even in those cases where it is being forced upon women due to oppression do you really think banning women from wearing them is going to tackle the wider issue? Or is it actually going to mean those women who are being treated badly are more likely to become reclusive and not part of society because they aren't being allowed out?

Nobody is denying that attitudes need to change to stop the oppression on women. But we need to remember that happens in all cultures to an extent and simply banning and alientating does nothing to change that.

Headscarf (like these: www.google.co.uk/search?q=plymouth+brethren+headscarf&client=ms-android-samsung&rlz=1Y3GQQX_enGB580GB580&espv=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sboxchip=Images&sa=X&ei=93TwU-G0FdDG7AamxYCwDw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=360&bih=567#facrc=_&imgrc=aGp5raZjPP6KWM%253A%3BmQLL92Y2y5X-VM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.gaystarnews.com%252Fsites%252Fdefault%252Ffiles%252Fimagecache%252F400xY%252Fexclusive_brethren_women.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.landoverbaptist.net%252Fshowthread.php%253Ft%253D85213%3B400%3B300 ) not headset

I think the headscarf/hijab is fine. I would hope though that they are not always black or navy, and that JL might also sell some prettier 'weekend' versions for those whose branch of religion allow for such choices.

I am not as convinced about the veil or face coverings. That, I think, is going too far as part of school uniform (although of course I respect individual choices, I see a lot of veils now where I live.)

Should we boycot bikinis because they are the favoured item of dress of strippers? Should we ban the hoodie because we all know what malicious intent that item of clothing conveys?

Bikini's and hoodie's aren't really the same thing Isetan.

the wearing of the hijab and the practice of female genital mutilation is comparable because they are examples of female oppression.

Oh for FFS!

As far as I know JL doesn't sell school uniform bikinis nor hoodies. If they did it would be a bigger story!

They're items of clothing.

We had a school hoodie as part of our P.E kit

They are not selling them as part of a school uniform. They are selling the hijab as a part of a school uniform.

This is the point of the thread.

Martha why would they be penalised for taking their children out of school? It's not a legal requirement to send your children to school in this country.

I'm wearing a hoodie right now, actually. My 'malicious intent' is to be cosy while I do the housework.

I haven't read the whole thread - has anyone whinged on about the oppression of married Orthodox Jewish ladies wearing wigs?

You're overlooking something about hijab - it looks nice! In school, girls are tidy in hijab, their sweet little faces surrounded by yards of fabric.

And as they grow older, nearing school leaving age, the strong, independent and capable young women wear their hijab with pride, and respect themselves, confident in their modesty and determination not to be taken in by the real oppression in our society which makes young women the sexual playthings of anyone who wants them.

Non issue.

Walk down my high street and there are a dozen places you can buy these items.

So now JL is making a marketing decision to allow parents to get the whole kit and caboodle in the one place, their place.

So what?

Isetan inform the daily mail right now!

do people not realise it's quiet oppressive to keep telling Muslim women and girls they are oppressed - like being female and Muslim makes you unable to have free will or willingly follow your faith ...why? because ALL Muslim men are oppressive women haters????

reminds me of the whole 'myth of the black rapist' thing to be honest

I am sure some Muslim women ARE oppressed - as are women the world over regardless of faith - but many are not (obviously with the caveat of how free can any woman be in a patriarchal society)

will people boycott shops that sell wigs because Hasidic Jewish women cover their hair with them???

These type of threads always catch my eye but they usually move far too fast for me to keep up as I only ever come onto MN when snatching a few minutes break between tasks. So I haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to reply to a couple of people on the first page asked why young girls need to wear hijab.

In Islam, young girls who haven't got reached the age of puberty are not required to wear the hijab. However, those that do wear it do so because its good practice in preparation for adulthood. My DD also wears it when she goes out but she does so just because she sees it as part of her regular dressing, like socks or a jacket when she leaves the home. Young children learn from those around them and because I wear one as does her older sister, she wants to dress like we do and that's only natural in any family. She's not required to wear it; she wears it because she wants to and takes it off when she wants to. Its her choice.

I find it extremely insulting for people to make passive comments out of ignorance that my DD is oppressed or that I am oppressed because we wear what we choose to wear and that it is forced upon us by the menfolk of our community. No man in my life would dare dictate to me what I can and cannot wear. I am an independent and free woman who chooses to wear what I want to wear out of my devotion to my Lord. I agree that the hijab is modest, protects my chastity, allows me to be judged by what is within rather than my beauty. I see it as a symbol of feminine empowerment. It's also perfect for bad hair days ;).

If there are some people who don't share my view and disagree in what the hijab stands for then that's fine- noone is suggesting you also wear it but to be judgemental and form opinions about my looks without taking time to understand my view is prejudice and intolerant.

If you insist on continuing to form your own judgements then fine go ahead, but then allow me to also make my own judgements on your dress choice.

Sikh boys have to cover their heads. At my son's school the Sikh boys wear blue or black turbans to match the school uniform and look perfectly smart. This is a non issue being stoked up by Daily Fail types.

And as they grow older, nearing school leaving age, the strong, independent and capable young women wear their hijab with pride, and respect themselves, confident in their modesty and determination not to be taken in by the real oppression in our society which makes young women the sexual playthings of anyone who wants them.

Oh come on

Exactly Gordy. Basically "we will stop you being told what to do, by telling you what to do"

coffeeinbed, the point of this thread is to get all outraged that John Lewis is selling a headscarf as part of its school uniform line. I used bikinis and hoodies to illustrate the ridiculousness of assigning prejudicial statements wholesale to items of clothing.