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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that JL are perfectly within their rights to sell a hijab as part of 'school uniform' ranges?

323 replies

MaybeIAmJustNotReasonable · 16/08/2014 16:09

John Lewis signed contracts to start a sale of hijabs within their school uniform range, having signed contracts with two schools in London and Liverpool. AIBU to think is actually okay, and we should accept the fact people can dress how they like, in terms with their religion?

OP posts:
TheBogQueen · 17/08/2014 08:58

Nuns cover their heads when they are adults.
Not children.

Bluegrass · 17/08/2014 08:59

So it's ok for JL to sell skirts to women but not hijabs? I think a lot of people just seem to think that whatever "the West" has decided is appropriate clothing for men and women at this particular period in time is self evidently correct, and any other cultures norms are wrong and oppressive!

Cherriesandapples · 17/08/2014 09:03

A nun wears a habit because she has had a vocational calling and has made a free choice about becoming a nun. I see that society is increasingly compelling young Muslim girls to cover up. If non Muslim people the live in a community there is also societal pressure to cover up (I have felt this pressure). How far until IS "forces" are going to go around certain areas of this country demanding women cover up?

GlaikitFizzog · 17/08/2014 09:04

Thebogqueen, you have misread my question. The word you have chose to ignore is anyone.

Many posters have said the hate to see women wearing it. Not just children. My question isn't about whether children should wear it or not.

My opinion on children and religion is they should be taught about them (all religions) but not expected to adhere any rules until they are old enough to make that choice on their own. That choice should then be respected.

MorrisZapp · 17/08/2014 09:04

JL can sell what it wants, it doesn't bother me. But I hate seeing girls and women wearing religious covering. It goes against everything I believe in and hold dear.

GlaikitFizzog · 17/08/2014 09:06

Really?? IS forces are going to invade here and demand we all cover up. Is that not a bit hysterical?

And if the community I lived in was in a Muslim country I would respect their traditions and cover up if it was necessary.

coffeeinbed · 17/08/2014 09:07

Hijab worn by a grown up after an informed decision - fine. Which is what adult hijab wearers and nuns are.

A child wearing it - no, children don't have the capacity to make these decisions. I really dislike seeing young girls all wrapped up in these garments, just let them be children.

TheBogQueen · 17/08/2014 09:07

Bluegrass - no skirts and hijabs are not the same or equivalent, they signify different things. A hijab signifies a certain religion and with that comes certain values.

I think people are questioning whether the notion of 'modesty' should be imposed on young girls while at school. After all boys do not need to cover their heads.

But fir me it's a storm in a teacup. There are bigger issues.

TheBogQueen · 17/08/2014 09:10

How far until IS "forces" are going to go around certain areas of this country demanding women cover up?

Ha ha

sashh · 17/08/2014 09:14

KeatsiePie

Some more for you

thehijablog.werun.com/going-gaga-over-hijab-ista/

GlaikitFizzog

Not just nuns, brides too.
Jewish women wearing wigs. Jewish men with ringlets, Jewsih boys with kippur, muslim men with beards, Sikh men with turbans/not cutting hair, 7th day Adventists wearing hats for church, hats at weddings, Sikh women covering their hair in the gurdwarra.

Sirzy · 17/08/2014 09:18

Do people have the same issue with Jewish boys wearing a kippah?

MyGrannyWasCalledLilyMaeToo · 17/08/2014 09:20

Don't be fatuous Bluegrass skirts and hijabs are not remotely connected. Girls and women choose to wear skirts, it's a fashion decision not a religious one.

Hijab-wearing is just another way for Islam to tell females they are second class citizens and should be ashamed of their bodies. It is pure misogyny.

Bluegrass · 17/08/2014 09:23

I don't think you can realistically separate the religious element from the cultural element. For some people how they dress reflects the culture they were born into, it reflects how their families and peers dress. Our own Western concepts of modesty are also arguably tied up with our own particular Christian background.

You could argue that all children should wear trousers until they are old enough to make the decision to wear a skirt, given what it represents in terms of patriarchy, restriction, etc. Of course a lot of little girls would feel really unhappy at the idea that they weren't allowed to wear what their mums were wearing...

It just seems like Goldilocks syndrome, what we wear is amazingly just right whereas what they wear is wrong and we should be entitled to force them to change. We could rip skull caps off Jewish boys while we are at it I suppose - how tolerant of difference we all are!

Cherriesandapples · 17/08/2014 09:23

I think people should do what they want in their own homes, mosques, temples etc... But schools should remain places where children are expected to conform.

There are areas in this country where girls and young women are not free to wear what they want and under extreme pressures to conform. I have seen this grow as the years have passed by and I don 't want to return to a society where women are both idolised and demonised in an attempt to control them.

MyGrannyWasCalledLilyMaeToo · 17/08/2014 09:24

Are they forced to wear them Sirzy? Or just for prayers? You're not suggesting little Jewish boys are subjugated by their communities are you? Ha! Not the mummy's princes I know!

coffeeinbed · 17/08/2014 09:25
Hmm I seem to remember Beckham wearing a skirt in his younger days...
MarthasVineyard · 17/08/2014 09:29

Sirzy - in answer to the question you asked me; girls would not be forced out of the education system if they were not allowed to wear the hijab - their parents would be penalised if they didn't send them to school.

A question for you; should we allow the practice of female genital mutilation to continue in order to avoid "ruining any relationships being built between the young person/their families and the authorities"?

Sirzy · 17/08/2014 09:31

Not all girls are forced to wear them. A lot make that choice.

It's not even vague comparable to fgm. It's not as easy as to say the parents would be penalised, even if they were do you think that would change things? More likely they would decide to home educate and the ability of the system to protect them and help them is vastly reduced.

HermioneWeasley · 17/08/2014 09:32

I am really interested in this thread. A while ago I started one about a girl in my son's primary school wearing hijab and how distasteful I found it. I was accused of frothing, racism and Islamaphobia.

Personally I am increasingly intolerant of seeing women covered, from hijab to full burqa. For me it is hard to separate the many many acts of misogyny committed by men in the name of Islam, from the religion itself. For example the recent pronouncement by turkey's (religious) prime minister that women should not laugh in public to preserve their modesty, alongside the creeping erosion of women's human rights in that country.

By the way, I was raised by a Muslim and half the women in my family identify as Muslim, but do not cover their hair - they see it as old fashioned.

littleducks · 17/08/2014 09:34

I think bluegrass makes a valid point although I may be in a minority.

It's a bit of cloth it isn't a big deal.

Perhaps there are abusive men forcing their wives and daughters to wear it. But the problem then is the men and society should target them. There are abusive and controlling men from all cultures, with far too many threads on here from women in horrible situations.

Women choose to buy and Wear skirts despite trousers arguably being more practical and historically shorts bring associated with being feminine while trousers are disproved of. Women also choose to wear hijab.

*Things like those adverts showing domestic abuse and statimg it wasn't right with trendy celebrities on M TV are a good example imo of sending out the message to society that it is wrong imo.

coffeeinbed · 17/08/2014 09:35

The law states that young children don't have the capacity to make some decisions.

I think there has to be an age of consent for covering as well.

Skina · 17/08/2014 09:40

Hermione I remember your thread and was a fairly lone voice in agreeing with you then too. There is a child at my DC's school aged just 5 who wears one, along with her two year old younger sister. Like you, I find this distasteful. And sad.

Cherriesandapples · 17/08/2014 09:41

There are 500 IS fighters from the UK in Sryria /Iraq. That didn't happen in a vacuum. As a society we have to have a debate about why this is and ask what is really happening in some communities. Some people within communities in this country are not integrated into a wider community but exist within a mono culture. Girls within these communities are very vulnerable to pessures from family members.

MarthasVineyard · 17/08/2014 09:43

Sirzy - you didn't answer my question.

Sirzy · 17/08/2014 09:44

I did. I said you can't compare the two in anyway and I am not getting into an argument based on frankly rediculous comparisons.