To ask for Ideas how to punish my 15 year old 2nd Daughter for being horrible to her elder sister and rude and demeaning to me.

[smokepole]

I have recently posted about my DD2s behaviour in upsetting DD1 about her school and demeaning her potential University and course . The worst part is she is now calling me 'Thick' and an embarrassment because I don't have a degree from a top University like all her friends parents and that I have to do an OU one because I have no qualifications .

She said 'Sorry' about an earlier outburst, but she is at again calling me , DD1 and her friends.

How can I shut her up?

She has never been like this before.

Turn round and say 'do you have a top degree? Well we'll discuss it when you do.'

Tell her to live somewhere else if she is going to carry on with her disrespectful attitude.

You are the one who has bought her into this world and she should remember that.

Do "the look"? Icy, dismissive, cold? Refuse to engage. Then when she's figured out she doesn't know everything, be super nice to her.

What does she need from you? Lifts? Money? you are clearly too "thick." to provide it.
However when she has calmed down I would try to listen to her-is she under pressure? is someone saying mean things to her? Is her self-confidence low?

This isn't acceptable though and you do need to make that clear.

She sounds embarrassed/ ashamed to me, no help though sorry

Mine would have been quarantined in their bedrooms if they spoke to me like that, minus their computers, xboxes, tablets or mobile phones too.

The next time she really wanted anything from me (like the free taxi service to drive her to her friend's house) I would refuse and would tell her she needed to prove first how she had changed her disrespectful attitude.

It would be several weeks before I would consider relenting. There would be hell to pay first.

What topseyt said. No computers/phone/tablet and no nice stuff over and above basic food required.

I'd call her on it in front of all her friends, ask them if they spoke to their parents that way. She sounds frightfully immature to me.

i'm a bitch tho I admit

Give her a list of all the top people in the country who don't have degrees. Alan Sugar and Richard Branson I believe for example.

Then switch off the wifi and tell her she can only have it back on when she can behave nicely.

I agree that she sounds ashamed and I wonder if some competitive friend has been having a go at her.
Still unacceptable though-consequences first-understanding what is behind this next.

Remove her mobile phone/laptop/ipad/tablet (anything electronic really) for a specific amount of time (may only a few hours this time) and say that the next time she speaks to you or your other daughter in that way you will do the same again for xx time (specify an amount of time that is at least double the amount you withheld it for the first time). Then most important of all, if she does it again - carry though the sanction - no matter what. Even if she is going out and "needs her phone". You can say that as you can't allow her to go out without her phone she is also grounded, or let her go without it, whichever you are happiest with but really do carry through the sanction.

As well as this I would also try and find out where this is coming from. When she is in a better mood (and you are as well), maybe try and talk to her about it in a calm open mood without getting too preachy and see if you can et to the bottom of why she is suddenly doing this. I would still put in some really strong boundaries on the behaviour though and really quickly. The more she gets away with it the more she will feel she can continue doing it.

This is not the first thread you have made about "top universities", comparing your daughters' schools, etc. I have not done an AS. I simply remember.

I think you need to think about the attitudes to education you're showing your daughters.

I would probably try to find a moment when she is an a better/quieter mood to sit her down for a quick talk. I don't see the point in approaching this in a confrontational way, because she is clearly in an aggressive confrontational frame of mind and will probably only snap back at you if you are agro too.

I would, in a calm and non blaming and non aggressive manner, ask her why she is saying these things. I would hopefully try to get to the bottom of her behaviour and understand why it is happening.

I would also try to explain to her that academic success does not ensure that a person is successful in life or happy either. I would explain that there are lots of ways to make your mark in the world. I would also warn her that she will alienate a lot of people if she carries on like this and that her statements make her sound like a stuck-up snob.

I hope things improve for you soon.

It started today, when DD1 admitted to being anxious and worried about her A2 results. DD2 said " Don't worry you can always do an Open University Degree If you fail" This was aimed at me and was in front of a school friend who giggled nervously ( I am just about to start an OU Degree). She wanted to upset DD1 who has done 'brilliantly' from a Secondary Modern in Kent to be on course for BBB or ABB. It is possible that some of her friends live in bigger houses and that many of their parents are senior professionals but despite being single they have never had less than their school friends. Mum and Dad have always made sure that my three have had everything they need.

I am wondering whether she feels she is under pressure to better what-ever her sister achieves because she goes to a grammar school.
The friend who nervously giggled has a GP Mother/Father Lawyer but has told me she is under 'serious pressure' because her brother is doing a post Grad in Chemistry at Cambridge. She is also only average for the grammar school, so feels she will not live up to her parents expectations. DD2 and her made friends in year7 when both were getting extra help. The poor girl,her mother checks her homework every night and also the time she has spent on it, if she has spent less than 2 Hours , her mother goes 'Berserk' at her and makes her cry ( This despite being a GP and causing her daughter angst).

In my day a slap across the face would have put that ungrateful attitude in to check.

I really like Fluffyears' suggestion but I guess it might not work repeatedly.

I didn't see your earlier post - but is DD1 about to leave home to go to this apparently inferior university? Could DD2 be lashing out because she is scared of the changes and the choices she will have to make about her own future are getting closer and more real?

Is this something you could talk with her about or would she clam up? Could her sister talk or are relationships too strained right now?

And - as I am sure you know - your study with the OU is a fantastic achievement. I have friends with Oxbridge firsts who have struggled with OU courses. The idea that it is inferior is laughable. DD2 should be as proud of you as anything.

I think at 15, I would have said hats off to anyone that did a degree, GCSE's seemed pretty full on at the time! Where is she getting these ideas from?

She sounds a madam. I have no degree but I'm by no means thick.

Well she's angry about something that's for sure!

Does she feel ashamed of her / her family compared to her friends? Can you get her to talk about it, and try and get her to see that her shame is misplaced and actually, it's more shameful to believe in those kind of value judgements.

If she's just being a horrible brat then I'd treat her like one TBH, and start a respect = respect system, where she learns to show respect to you, and she earns the things she likes/ make her 'grown up' back.

One sentence: How dare you?

Second sentence: Get out of my sight until you can apologise.

Third sentence: Do that again and you won't live long enough to go to any university

Or you could just start doing what the GPs do. When she complains tell her you fully understand why you and her sister are an embarrassment and you will help her ensure she doesn't join you....

Otherwise, I am speechless. She must be feeling very unsure of herself to be that nasty, surely?

She was rude to you in front of friend?

I think once friend has gone I would sit her down and tell her she has a choice. She can discuss her rudeness with you like a civil adult or she can be simply punished.

So if she's calm/polite have a productive conversation about-
-the dangers of academic snobbery.
-how rude it is to show herself up in front of a guest.
-how disrespecting you/your choices, in your own house will not be tolerated.
-how with just days to go until the A Level results go out she needs to show her sister some basic compassion. (Include briefing on what's acceptable to say/not say when results actually come out).

If she apologises and seems to understand leave it there.

If she won't participate properly in this conversation tell her she is clearly too immature to engage in a mature conversation so she will be punished for rudeness like a small child. Confiscate phone/all other technology for a week or until she engages in the above conversation, whatever is soonest.

Its not an inferior University .DD1 is Hopefully doing 'Forensic Science ' @ Leicester. She wants to eventually join the Police Force after the degree.

Hawthorn. Thanks for the Encouragement .
DD2 is going in to year 11 so may now feel , its time to deliver and that expected grades mean nothing ,hence the behaviour as a form of release.

Tell her to move out, get a job, pay her bills/rent/transport costs while she still knows it all.

Little mare!

DD1 admitted to being anxious and worried about her A2 results. DD2 said " Don't worry you can always do an Open University Degree If you fail"

so from that you get to

She wanted to upset DD1 who has done 'brilliantly' from a Secondary Modern in Kent to be on course for BBB or ABB

How do you figure that out She was probably just saying that the OU was out there as an option.You sound as though you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.
Has she does just done her GCSEs.With all the talk of A2 results it has probably raised her own anxieties about her own results next week.

I suspect the reality is that your dd2 feels insecure and knows that she is not as bright as older sister. Perhaps your younger daughter sees school success as defining her as a person. Is she struggling to keep up with her classmates?

It's not really an option to kick out an awful 15 year old. There are no easy answers.