Breastfeeding on Cross Country trains - a horrid experiance

[Paulala]

Hello ladies, I'm a first time poster & a first time mum so apologies if I introduce myself by way of a horrid experience but I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonable.

I've just taken my first train journey with my 7 month old boy, we were travelling alone to Derby with everything we needed for a week on a Cross Country train. Everything was going ok until we returned to our seat from a nappy change. The nappy change itself was quite upsetting for him, being strapped to a table in a moving urine soaked metal cubical isn't very pleasant, but I hadn't expected a lot from the facilities.

I intended to give him a breastfeed at our seat but when we got there the seat beside us was occupied (we were in a set on 2 seats not a table of 4). I asked the man sitting in the seat if it would be possible for him to move to one of the single vacant seats 3 rows up just while I breastfed so I could have a little bit of privacy. He said No & stated that was the seat he was allocated why should he move.

I asked him again saying my baby needed to be fed, he was hungry & distressed & there were empty seats in view he could use. He said I should move there instead, this really wouldn't have helped as they were single aisle seats & would have meant I'd have to feed even more publicly. I was so upset I asked him if he expected me to breastfeed in the seat beside him with him watching & he just shrugged his shoulders.

At this point everyone close by was aware of the situation & I'm still standing in the aisle with an upset baby, this man hasn't even got up to allow us to sit down. The ticket inspector then arrives & I explain to him that the man in the seat beside us is causing a lot of distress with his insistence on sitting there while I breastfed. Anyone who's traveled by train will know neighbouring seats offer no prospect of personal space.

I fully understand his right to the seat he booked but both he & I could see other seats he could have taken until I stopped feeding then he could have returned to the seat he booked when we finished. I'm sure many men would have been totally ok with doing that. Instead he was nasty & snarly & the thought of him watching me feed my baby in such a tight space was horrible. I had no option but to ask the ticket inspector to help me find another seat & to help me move all my things, we would also need the assistant at Derby station to be made aware we'd be on another carriage. All because this man would not move 3 rows up.

Still seating stubbornly in his seat the man recognised how upset he'd made me & stated loudly to everyone, right I'll move & asked the guard what he was going to do about it. The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there. I couldn't believe it he'd made me suffer through a very public request to breastfeed privately (or as private as I could be) he'd initially insisted he would not move while I did so & left me feeling like I shouldn't be breastfeeding on a train, all while I stood with a distressed baby in a moving carriage while everyone watched. When the man eventually moved I sat & fed my baby & cried it was the worst breastfeeding experience I've ever had.

I have to travel back next week with the same train company & I'm dreading it, I can't express milk & I'm really worried something similar will happen again. I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Cheers ladies,
Paula

This level of aggression is so weird, and so interesting.

It's a way of distinguishing oneself from something - and it is very emphatic and quite angry - perhaps from a fear that one be thought one of those mothers

There is a lot in this thread about setting back breastfeeding by asking for special conditions. That is really interesting and telling. There is a real fear of a backlash of some sort, and passionate disavowal of something that it is felt might contribute to it.

Sad. Like we all really feel we are on a very sticky wicket indeed and have to make sure we are well enough behaved not to lose - what?

By accusing a man of being a pervert.

Accusing a man if being a booby ogling pervert for sitting in the proximity of you when your feeding your baby.

That's ok is it?

That's a level of aggression I too find interesting. Grumpy, maybe. Surly, perhaps. Knocker obsessed pervert? No.

Lol harold reminds me of a time I was feeding ds sitting outside a cafe and a group of school boys walked passed and looked completely mortified and started laughing and singing about it.

Just to clarify

Oh my word, little buggers.

I'm not saying that's what this man was thinking!

Maybe he wanted to stay there to write a titty ditty.

Sad. Like we all really feel we are on a very sticky wicket indeed and have to make sure we are well enough behaved not to lose - what?

Stop exaggerating. OP was rude, end of story.

this level of aggression is so wierd and so interseting

No this level of drama and fuss is so ridiculous it's laughable and baffling at the same time.

vezzie

"It's a way of distinguishing oneself from something - and it is very emphatic and quite angry - perhaps from a fear that one be thought one of those mothers"

That makes the assumption that we are all mothers and all female.

"Sad. Like we all really feel we are on a very sticky wicket indeed and have to make sure we are well enough behaved not to lose - what?"

Well behaved or well mannered? If you want something shouldn't you ask in a well behaved polite manner?

When you start demanding things and implying people are perverts you are going to lose.

No way I'm going to read 700 posts but my view is yes, YWBU. Some breast feeding mums do my head in because they expect everyone to fit around their demands. No one stopped you breast feeding- they just said private breast feeding in a public place would not be possible. It's not that shocking a statement.

If you wanted a seat next to you to be empty so you could have a totally private breast feeding experience you should have booked it, not tried to turf out another ticket holder from their seat. You chose to take a breast feeding baby on a child and should have anticipated that other people would be close by.

There was no need for it to be any sort of public spectacle so I don't understand your tears and embarrassment: have you not come across muslin cloths that you drape over for privacy?

Train, not child!

The last few pages make me feel like I have entered a parallel universe

Vezzie, that's an interesting thought.

I can't be doing with reading the whole thread at this stage, but have read enough like it to imagine....

Breastfeeding in public is such an emotive issue.

We can't lose the right to breastfeed while it and about now because it's enshrined in law (2010 equality act, as no doubt somebody has already pointed out). Maybe we are worried about losing public support...

Maybe there's also some thinly veiled jealousy/antagonism from mums who wish they could have breastfed but didn't get the right support do thought they couldn't do it. They don't want to feel like second class citizens, or second class mums, so make out that there is nothing particularly social about breastfeeding.

Somebody has probably made this point already, but it's much easier to breastfeed a newborn discreetly than a wiggly 7 month old who keeps latching off and looking around, leaving quantities of breast exposed. Maybe the op really was worried about privacy.

Also, none of us were there to see the bloke in question and judge whether or not he was looking at her breasts and being weird.

I am not going to read the whole thread, because iknow it will make me cross, so probably should stay out of this really....

Bad typos in that - sorry should proof read the auto corrections before I press post!

but it's much easier to breastfeed a newborn discreetly than a wiggly 7 month old who keeps latching off and looking around, leaving quantities of breast exposed. Maybe the op really was worried about privacy.

Very true, I remember that age where they are becoming very aware of the world around them, very fidgety.

Also, none of us were there to see the bloke in question and judge whether or not he was looking at her breasts and being weird.

Yes very true.

this type of thing gives breastfeeders a bad rep I am a BF and don't think it gives them a bad rep in the slightest.

Apologies for not RTFT but it's too long. Just going on the OP I would say it all hangs on precisely how the request was made, tone of voice, smile etc.

I can't imagine many men faced with a hungry baby, a pleasant, quiet request to move for half an hour until the feeding has finished and a good explanation as to why you don't want to sit in an aisle seat to bf, not being happy to comply.

I can imagine a lot of men and women digging their heels in and not moving if they were commanded to move in an imperious manner!

OP does sound a little like the latter, but only she can know for sure how she made her request. If the first she was NBU if the second VU!

The thread has reached 29 pages, so I a, afraid I only read the 1st page.

OP, I understand that a first train trip with a baby and lots of stuff is a big deal for you. I realise too, that mothers with tiny babies can lose a bit of perspective and in the nicest possible way, think the world revolves around them and their feeding baby.
Unfortunately it does not. You should be allowed to feed in public. However you have no entitlement to the level of privacy you wanted on a train, which by nature lacks privacy. If you required more privacy, then YOU needed to move to find it, or use some kind of covering to provide yourself with it.
You sound like you are rather emotional (understand le with a new baby...but you need to recognise it in yourself) and reacted emotionally to the man, by crying whilst feeding and by needing to post on here. It is fine to be emotional, but you need to realise that is how you are reacting.
The man could have moved. It would have been nice of him to do so, but you had no right to expect him to do so, and it does sound as if you pushed the point rather far with him, rather than accepting his 'no'. It sounds like the ticket collector did the right thing to diffuse the situation. The man was asked to move, but to a better seat, so he did not feel too aggrieved...and you got your double seat and privacy, although by then, it sounds like the whole carriage were looking at you.
If you go out in public, you are IN PUBLIC. It should always be possible to breastfeed, and happily this was not a situation where anyone tried to stop you. However, you may not always get the level of privacy you would like. You need to understand and accept that. And also, it is not everyone else's responsibility to adjust their behaviour to suit you, so you get that privacy.
If you really find it hard to feed in front of other people (who incidentally are very unlikely to be looking) then it is probably best to avoid places such as trains. Whilst I understand that the trip was a big deal for you, you were oversensitive and it was your problem, not theirs, so yes you were being unreasonable.

greenbananas
"so make out that there is nothing particularly social about breastfeeding."

Yet it is the OP who was making breastfeeding anti-social.

I breast fed on a crowded train and it never occurred to me to expect anyone to move. The woman opposite cheered me- she said that she breast fed on a commuter train full of men in 1947 and they just all disappeared behind their newspapers!
I don't think it was reasonable to move people- he likely wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't drawn attention to it- he at least would have pretended not to notice.

Sorry, Boney, that was supposed to read, "nothing special about breastfeeding". Damn auto correct.

I do think breastfeeding is a social activity, and a special activity, as well as being completely normal. And I am not judging anyone who want able to breastfeed, or didn't want to breastfeed... oh dear! Damn auto correct!