Breastfeeding on Cross Country trains - a horrid experiance

[Paulala]

Hello ladies, I'm a first time poster & a first time mum so apologies if I introduce myself by way of a horrid experience but I'd like to know if you think I'm being unreasonable.

I've just taken my first train journey with my 7 month old boy, we were travelling alone to Derby with everything we needed for a week on a Cross Country train. Everything was going ok until we returned to our seat from a nappy change. The nappy change itself was quite upsetting for him, being strapped to a table in a moving urine soaked metal cubical isn't very pleasant, but I hadn't expected a lot from the facilities.

I intended to give him a breastfeed at our seat but when we got there the seat beside us was occupied (we were in a set on 2 seats not a table of 4). I asked the man sitting in the seat if it would be possible for him to move to one of the single vacant seats 3 rows up just while I breastfed so I could have a little bit of privacy. He said No & stated that was the seat he was allocated why should he move.

I asked him again saying my baby needed to be fed, he was hungry & distressed & there were empty seats in view he could use. He said I should move there instead, this really wouldn't have helped as they were single aisle seats & would have meant I'd have to feed even more publicly. I was so upset I asked him if he expected me to breastfeed in the seat beside him with him watching & he just shrugged his shoulders.

At this point everyone close by was aware of the situation & I'm still standing in the aisle with an upset baby, this man hasn't even got up to allow us to sit down. The ticket inspector then arrives & I explain to him that the man in the seat beside us is causing a lot of distress with his insistence on sitting there while I breastfed. Anyone who's traveled by train will know neighbouring seats offer no prospect of personal space.

I fully understand his right to the seat he booked but both he & I could see other seats he could have taken until I stopped feeding then he could have returned to the seat he booked when we finished. I'm sure many men would have been totally ok with doing that. Instead he was nasty & snarly & the thought of him watching me feed my baby in such a tight space was horrible. I had no option but to ask the ticket inspector to help me find another seat & to help me move all my things, we would also need the assistant at Derby station to be made aware we'd be on another carriage. All because this man would not move 3 rows up.

Still seating stubbornly in his seat the man recognised how upset he'd made me & stated loudly to everyone, right I'll move & asked the guard what he was going to do about it. The guard then said we'll sit you in first class sir don't worry about it you will be ok there. I couldn't believe it he'd made me suffer through a very public request to breastfeed privately (or as private as I could be) he'd initially insisted he would not move while I did so & left me feeling like I shouldn't be breastfeeding on a train, all while I stood with a distressed baby in a moving carriage while everyone watched. When the man eventually moved I sat & fed my baby & cried it was the worst breastfeeding experience I've ever had.

I have to travel back next week with the same train company & I'm dreading it, I can't express milk & I'm really worried something similar will happen again. I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Cheers ladies,
Paula

I have to say if someone asked me to move to give them 'privacy' while they breastfed I'd say politely no, but that of course their breastfeeding didn't bother me. I suspect my (male) partner would do the same.

People don't 'watch', IME, when you breastfeed anyway. They look pointedly over your head, in slightly hilarious manner.

SweetSummer

The OP decided to call him a misogynist pervert after the thread didn't go her way. There was no suggestion in her OP that he had stared or "talked to her breasts!"

A lot of men are nice people, you know, and would not look or give a shiny shit about a woman BF next to them!

From what the op said she was stood next to where he was sat. Therefore unless either was an extreme of height it's pretty safe to guess that her breats were most likely at his eye level. Therefore he probably did look at them as it would be hard not to!

If I am on a long journey ie five hours then no I won't move my kids when I have paid and reserved seats. There are specific seats for elderly, disabled, pregnant and they can use those. If they were all full then I would stand myself but stay nearby so I was near the children and they could have my seat. Even my under fives are big, and it isn't comfortable to have them in my lap and at a table seat they wouldn't fit on my lap.

Travelling with all five kids and the luggage for all of us if we are going away for a period of time is a pita. I have done it many times, hence why I always book seats for all of us!

Anyone can book seats and they have specific seats for those in more need. On a very busy train I would move myself and perhaps get the younger three to squish into two seats. When you book seats they don't put you in priority seats unless you ask/request them? I normally get a table set of four and then an extra two seats nearby.

Sweet that's what the OP said just before she flounced.

Don't be an arse, just because he didn't do what she wanted doesn't make it right for her to label him that way.

There was no mention of him being a suspected pervert in her OP was there?

I've never ridden on a train before. If the OP has asked me to move from my assigned seat to another seat, I would have said no, because I would have assumed that those seats were assigned to someone else. It wouldn't have occurred to me that I might be able to sit in a seat other than the one I'd been assigned.

Oh please.

This is another one of those threads, isn't it?

If the gentleman was as much of a pervert that the op is making out, then surely once she explained that to the conductor then she would have been the one to get moved to first class?? To get away from the leery man?!

But no, suspect it's more to have more posters agree with her.

It sounds like the guard handled it well.

Sirzy, I can only go by my own experience, but if OP could see those free seats then they were close. So what if this man had to move back to his original seat if someone turned up for a booked seat? It's not the most difficult thing in the world to move seats. It's not like he was having to move to another carriage. I dont know what the obsession is with "owning" this seat. Ok, on a full train this is essential, but not otherwise.

On the trains I travel regularly there are always a huge amount of seats with booked tickets in them that are never taken up. (how this happens I would love to know!). You can read where they are booked from and to. If the train pulls out from the first station empty you can be pretty sure that seat is free and sit in it. It's bloody amazing how often they get left empty with people standing too.

SweetSummerSweetPea
"misogynist pervert who leered at her breasts

I dont understand this - are you saying its ok for him to stare and talk to her breasts and that doesnt make him a pervert?"

A substantial piece of information that was drip feed in to the thread after it didn't go her way.
The truth of this is if you are going to bf in public then you bf in public.

I was on a Cross Country train this week and BF'd my 5mo going to our destination and on the return journey. Going there I had no one next to me as the carriage was virtually empty. Coming back I had a business type next to me - mid-50s, sharp suit, fancy phone. He didn't flicker so much as an eyelid when I started feeding the baby and when the baby popped off mid-feed to give him a big milky grin and a good natured kick he simply commented "I think I've made a friend" and went back to his emails.

YABU to expect someone to move for you, especially when there were other seats you could have gone to without making a fuss.

As an aside, I found the staff very helpful too and happy to lend a hand with pushchairs, etc.

I wish I'd sat next to difficult man when I was breastfeeding. As soon as DD started feeding, I'd get a virtual fountain the other side. I once drenched the cat (this is in the early days before I learned to double up the breast pads), who was not impressed.

Unfortunately the OP has flounced off now so cannot read the remainder of responses.

I think she was being rather unreasonable to expect the man to move, but not unreasonable to ask. He was unreasonable to not let her return to her seat. The guard didn't handle the situation well, and none of the other passengers assisted. Such, it seems, is the way of public transport.

If space and discretion are necessary then it's either book more seats, travel off peak at a known quiet time, or travel first class.

I've been reading this on and off all morning. I know OP has gone, but would be interested to know if she'd have asked a woman to move? It seems her issue is with the man. If she wouldn't have asked a woman to move, then she's being sexist - assuming he would be interested in her boobs where a woman wouldn't. As far as I can tell the bloke didn't stare at her naked boobs as he was moved before she started. Also she says he didn't stand up for her but it sounds like she started with the request and discussion before he had chance to let her back in. She then went to find the ticket collector. So he didn't refuse to let her sit down. In addition, if I was him (and I'm a woman) I would have been offended by the "so you're just going to watch?" question - the shrugging was probably a response to a patently ridiculous statement by her and not knowing what to say without inflaming the situation. If he's sat next to her he would have had to turn sideways and make a big effort to do this - that would have been weird but we can't tell if that's what he would have actually done as it didn't get to that point.

I can understand both sides - being uncomfortable and not wanting to move but the "scene" sounds like it was of OP's making. Interestingly, my mum told a tale of being on a train with me many years ago (I was under 6 months) and she was sharing a table / compartment with a group of squaddies. They were very nice - entertaining me etc and when she said she needed to feed me they were very kind, offering to go and get hot water for the bottle etc. She responded that it was kind but it wouldn't be necessary as my feed was "on draft". Cue a puzzled silence, a dawning realisation that she meant she was going to BF and a few rd faces. Didn't bother them after that, lots of looking very intently at her face and not me until finished and they were most helpful when she got off the train at the other end. Makes me smile and I hope when my first is born I'll be as confident as her, but if I'm not I won't let my embarrassment affect others. The thought of causing a scene like this is worse than the thought of Bf in public!

You move! Bf doesn't make you special in anyway. Noone was stopping you feeding.

FTMK

From her OP, an issue with men perhaps?

I think trains should have a breastfeeding policy which recognises a womans need for privacy and a bit of respect. Not a system where men are rewarded for making women feel bad about the need to feed their babies. Do you think I'm being unreasonable?

Jeez op have you lost your mind? I'm a feminist and support women's right to breastfeed in public as indiscreetly as they like (!) but I don't support your stance which is incredibly unreasonable.

You have one train ticket therefore you are entitled to one seat to sit in and feed your baby in peace. You are not entitled to two seats or to decree who may sit next to you.

Why you made such a scene and expected him to move elsewhere I do not know. If you don't want someone to see you breastfeeding I suggest you just get on with it without drawing lots of attention to yourself. I doubt he was the least bit interested in your breasts never mind one with a baby attached to it.

Incidentally what is this help that Cross Country offer that involves being met off the train? Sounds really helpful and beyond usual service expectations.

We don't know if the man stopped OP returning to her seat. I was rather under the impression that she wasn't sitting down to pressure him to move.

For all we know the man could have autism or a mental illness. Being expected to move suddenly can freak out some people with these conditions especially if they are already stressed. Perhaps the man needed a window seat to not get travel sick.

What would happen if the coach was packed full? Should someone get off the train to give mums privacy?

Bonkers!

Thant is all.