to wonder how Scotland's decision will affect england?

[LEMmingaround]

Just that really? If they do go their ownway how will it affect england?

Also will it open a can of worms with wales and northern Ireland?

I'm honestly really upset to see people hating the Scots. I'm desperate to stay British. I'm honestly really very concerned about the referendum.

Most of my family work in areas that serve the wholeof britain ( Medicine, forces, engineering). A few of us will have to move down to England /Wales/Ireland to keep our jobs.

I'm just absolutely tired of hearing the same stuff to vote YES. It's personal to me, my vote is NO because it's not going to help my family at all. Alex Salmond wants rid of my husband's job, who is the hardest working, smartest person I know. It terrifies me!

A man I used to work with is always going on and on about Scotland being independent. He is a professional who has married and had a baby with his foreign wife, they all live abroad.. They can't get visas to move back to Scotland, and he thinks that by voting yes he'll get to move to Scotland.

I understand he wants his wife and child to move to Scotland, but he doesn't even know how the visa applications will change under an independent Scotland. it's ignorance! And if I'm hand on heart honest that if it does mean they'll get a visa, it's at the expense of my family losing jobs or moving "abroad " to Britain!
don't get me wrong I hope it works out for him,and he gets them home to Scotland. just not an independent one!

Sorry for derailing a bit, and all the typos.

Its going to be fine - you dont have to have those nasty financial businesses - but a large part of your GDP - that pays for all the lovely warm cuddly stuff - is based on it.

RBS alone is currently in receipt of credit guarantees 2 times the entire GDP of Scotland.

So like it or not - without the financial services sector - things would like decidely ropey

A man I used to work with is always going on and on about Scotland being independent. He is a professional who has married and had a baby with his foreign wife, they all live abroad.. They can't get visas to move back to Scotland, and he thinks that by voting yes he'll get to move to Scotland.

If he doesn't live in Scotland how did he get a vote?

In order to be in the ERM you need your own free floating currency (as in unpegged) you then peg to the Euro.

You can use giant rubber triangles and call em pingoos - as long as they are freely convertible, backed by central government reserves and you can fit in the ERM pegging criteria.

As for if the Euro is a good thing - upto you - if you ask Germany - they love it. Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland - not so keen. You economic policy is set by the ECB - currently a Frenchman i believe. Do you think he gives much of damn about the impact on a country of 12m people? Not when he has France and Germany to worry about.

oh he makes it quite clear he doesn't get a vote, but is making things very clear how he wants everyone else to vote. SorryI wasn't very clear with that

Oddcommentator your going on about police being armed and us facing austerity and riots and hunger then saying "please vote yes" is frankly vile.

If we had our own currency, why would we want to join the euro? Seems like an awful lot of stress and cost, just to give it up a couple of years down the line.

You have to meet the requirements and if you dont meet them, then no, you dont get to join. But the deal is - you have to take the Euro, so, you need to adjust your economic policy until you do fit. If that means cut public spending massively - yup - suck it up. If it means cutting pensions, yup suck it up. You see - the government will have no choice having signed the deal. You want in to the EU - you have to take the Euro - if that means massive and painful adjustments to your economy. Well - you want to travel to France without a visa and sell whiskey without tariffs - dont you?

Talking to pals in Eire - they have truly hated the massive changes to their economy just to keep them in the Euro of late - the troika - essentially foreign unelected officials have been running the economy to get it back in balance with the core of europe - (otherwise you get the odd factor of euro government debt attracting differing rates of interest) therefore you get currency disparities and arbitrage flows across borders. Maintaining an OCA is hard work and requires flows of money to poorer areas to keep purchasing power parity. Currently Merkel is suffering because Germany are upset with funding flows supporting the rim. So rather than take the political heat - the heat gets turned on the poor countries.

In essence - your economic policy will be governed by the whims of german domestic politics. Sounds extremist but Merkel recent hardening of policy with the ECB is driven by poor local showing in Barvaria!

And of course the euro is a moot question as we won't be allowed in the EU anyway

I live in England, am not at all Scottish, and hope the Scots vote Yes. Not because I think it's a particularly good idea for Scotland economically - I think it probably isn't - but because some things are more important than dull managerialism. National pride is very out of fashion with modern liberal types, who all think you have to be a skinhead thicko to be proud of your nationality, but as far as I can see this is basically what's at the root of Scotland's independence campaign and I think fair enough. If the Scots want to do things differently from the English, and have total autonomy in which to do so, then off they should pop and get on with it. If they produce something to be proud of, then that's great.

Also I get really irritated by the way the UK is increasingly governed from Brussels by a bunch of people we didn't vote for, and I imagine the Scots feel something similar about the government in Westminster. As I am a committed eurosceptic logically I have to support independence for Scotland.

The fact that Scotland wants to vote for independence and then give it all right back up again by joining the EU strikes me as bonkers but then it's not up to me, is it.

OldLady
when Alistair said that, he was still agreeing that cu was logical and desirable for both sides.
Yes CU is logical and desirable for both sides. That's why we have had it for 300 years! The point has was making is that without financial and political union (that we have now) it will no longer be possible. Nothing at all to do with fear, just cold hard logic.

Justanother
I'm honestly really upset to see people hating the Scots
I'm really sad to hear that. I don't think there are many here hating Scots, but I can imagine that the referendum will cause discontent on both sides. And I do hope your husband doesn't lose his job - but if Salmond gets his way he may be one of many, many that do.

If he doesn't live in Scotland how did he get a vote?
He didn't, legally. But there are known to be dodges.

Well it sounds vile - but it life will definitely improve down here - so yes please vote yes.

I can however see the ultimate end that independence, coupled with your current policy standpoint will lead.

Much of the independence debate is driven by "we will be better" - thus purely selfish.

My point of please vote yes is also purely selfish - i think rUK will be better off with Scotland independent. However i can see the logical conclusions for Scotland.

But that doesnt mean i want a single Scot to be hurt or harmed. I am saying from a purely selfish view- please vote yes. We will be better off without Scotland. I honestly believe it.

I see a lot of difficulty for Scotland - not least the awful pain of the needed austerity. but if Scotland wants it- go ahead - be my guest.

The Euro question. Again.

If it is a lot of bother and expense to take the Euro - then don't - what currency will you have? You can use the Yen, the Dollar, the ringit even. You can use the pound or the Euro - but not as a central banking currency.

It is all predicated on getting accepted in the first place. All it takes is 1 country to say no - and back to the end of the queue. Several countries have already signalled they will vote against Scotland joining. So indeed the whole Euro / EU question is moot.

So what currency will you use and where will your central bank be and who will underwrite your banking system?

Every single time it is asked the answer has been fudged.

In the interview Alistair was asked if he agreed that, in the event of a yes vote, cu would be a good idea. He said yes, it was both logical and desirable but (and I paraphrase) what was the point, as cu would lead to economic u and thence to political u, ie, what we have now. He certainly didn't say - just a few months ago - that cu would be impossible.

But now he says cu is impossible, and there's no way back if we say yes. Everyone is entitled to change their minds, of course, but it's a bit disconcerting in the circumstances.

Although it does of course make a complete volte face re cu on Sept 19 after a yes vote more acceptable...

It hasn't been fudged.

No currency union use pound anyway.
No EU membership use pound.
Or own new currencies.

Scotland has a shitload of assets to back a currency, and countries don't need a central bank - it just allows for riskier financial behaviour.

Can you name these "several countries" who will definitely veto our renegotiated membership of the EU, odd?

oddcommentator
It sounds harsh the way you put it, but I have to agree that it will be good for the UK.
And if that's what the people of Scotland really want, I sincerely do wish them the very best of luck. I would hate to see such a lovely country and its hard-working people fall into financial chaos.

Thank you sallyingforth!

Yes, it's that discontent throughout Britain that worries me whatever the outcome.

currency union will need to be accepted by the rUK not Scotland.

You are asking to leave the UK on one hand and asking to stay sort of, ish with the other.

No single UK government will be offering CU as it will be total and utter suicide politically.

Imagine the sun screaming "English taxpayers backing foreign banks" cue vote of no confidence in HoC and GE.

English MPs campaigning on "Ending the damaging currency union with Scotland"?

It might be in Scotlands interests - you have done the equivalent of filing for divorce, throwing the ring back and then asking to borrow the credit card just in case. the rUK will say no.

They have said no.

It might be logical for scotland, it might be desirable. But then it wont be up to you - it will be upto a country you have just shown to fingers to and told to get stuffed. What do you expect?

Spain
rUK
France
Cyprus

The polls are in favour of a no vote. So I would like to say that the Majority are happier with Britain. I'm hoping it stays that way on the 28th September.

typo 18th September

I must not be late to vote

Which succesfull economies operate without a central bank to issue currency?

Which assets do you speak of? Name two

You can use any currency you like - but you will need to borrow money.

Then it gets very sticky