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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder how Scotland's decision will affect england?

980 replies

LEMmingaround · 06/08/2014 20:35

Just that really? If they do go their ownway how will it affect england?

Also will it open a can of worms with wales and northern Ireland?

OP posts:
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6
StatisticallyChallenged · 17/08/2014 11:31

No, not "clearly not safer". You don't know why that particular yard went down, and you can't say it would have been safer under independence. The fact that a shipyard went down under the UK doesn't mean it wouldn't have otherwise.

FannyFifer · 17/08/2014 12:02

Aye but they can't now say that Shipyards are safer. It closed under the UK watch.
Don't know if being Independent would have helped as not Independent yet so no way of knowing.
But not safer in UK as it's shut.

SantanaLopez · 17/08/2014 12:05

But not safer in UK as it's shut.

Language, language, language.

It was clearly not safe in the UK. It may have been safer under an independent Scotland, but there's no way to judge which country it would have been safer in.

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/08/2014 12:14

Exactly Santana. Firstly, they said "shipyards will be safer" in general not "every shipyard will remain open". Secondly, Ferguson may well have been safer in the UK - you have no idea - as you presumably have neither a crystal ball nor psychic powers - what would have happened to Ferguson had Scotland become independent say 5 years ago. It could be that it would have gone bust years ago under an independent Scotland and has actually survived longer as part of the UK. You don't know. You're drawing a potentially faulty conclusion based on a single company.

According to KMPG, "the business had "experienced significant cash flow pressure in recent months" and a "lack of financial strength" had effectively "hindered its ability to secure new vessel contracts from its core customer base". That could have been as likely or more likely in an iScotland.

Sallyingforth · 17/08/2014 12:16

I don't see how Salmond could have saved an uneconomic shipyard, except with government subsidies then would be illegal in an EU country. Of course, if Scotland had left the EU he could do what he liked, but where would the cash come from?

There are still shipyards working in the Clyde on UK government contracts, but of course that work will be moving down to England after independence :)

GermyJamie · 17/08/2014 22:10

Last time I mentioned on here that I was voting Yes I had it explained to me that I must be doing so because I am poorly educated and like Braveheart. It's put me off debating somewhat.

SantanaLopez · 17/08/2014 22:23

That is a shame, Germy. There are idiots on both sides and of course we are all prone to getting over emotional. Is there anything you'd like to debate?

WhatTheFork · 17/08/2014 22:39

Oh, the Braveheart put down. Shows lack of imagination and ignorance. Have yet to see a yes campaign poster saying "Love Braveheart? Vote Yes" Hmm

SantanaLopez · 17/08/2014 22:45

I love the Kevin Bridges sketch where he boils the indyref down to Braveheart vs Trainspotting Grin

WhatTheFork · 17/08/2014 22:48

Will have to check that one out, love Kevin's humour (and he's a yesser)

FannyFifer · 17/08/2014 22:49

I have huge Braveheart flag in my garden with Mel Gibsons face and "Vote Yes" on it.

WhatTheFork · 17/08/2014 22:50

Nice work, Fanny

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/08/2014 23:08

I did see some publicity around the anniversary of Braveheart - I think they had a commemorative screening or something?- saving "Braveheart cast say vote yes" and someone holding a YES sign above a bunch of them!

honestly, not making it up!

OOAOML · 17/08/2014 23:21

There was a piece about the Braveheart cast voting yes (well presumably ose of them that actually live here) in the Scotsman. Thankfully I'm not making my voting decision based on celebrity endorsements (although if we're talking about non-voters with opinions, I do rate Stephen Hawking above Sean Connery Wink)

I haven't seen any official yes campaign stuff about Braveheart or Bannockburn, but there's a lot of other stuff going about. I may possibly have offended a FB friend who put up something about 1314 and how today we only have to to vote yes and not to die for our country by pointing out that it wasn't the 14th century anymore. I also got radio silence when I pointed out the difference between an independent country and a Crown Dependency Confused

OOAOML · 17/08/2014 23:25

Personally If I were an undecided voter Mel Gibson's face would definitely put me off - do you think it works?

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/08/2014 23:26

You sound like you are making yourself as popular as me OOAOML!

It was even worse FannyFifer - here

I'm pretty sure I actually snorted when I saw it!

OOAOML · 17/08/2014 23:29

OMG I think I am blinded by the whiteness of Brian Cox's legs! So, actors in historically inaccurate film plan to vote yes - hmmmm. No, still not won over Wink

OOAOML · 17/08/2014 23:31

You sound like you are making yourself as popular as me OOAOML!

I really do try to sit on my hands, but sometimes I just can't stop myself!

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/08/2014 23:37

You sure? I think it's a great reason myself Wink

In all seriousness - they way that I see it is actually both sides have fair number of:

-slightly obsessive people who've researched until they've almost bored themselves, let alone everyone else Grin
-"I've done a bit of research and I think "
-People who've read/watched a fair bit of news and maybe watched the debates, and concluded
-"I'm voting X because it's what I believe in"
-"I'm voting Yes/No because I hate the tories/Alex Salmond"
-shouty people with no grasp of reality
-utter twazzocks who spout ill informed shite on facebook!

OOAOML · 17/08/2014 23:43

Hmm, well I can see what group you fit into, not sure about the rest of us Grin

Re FB I think one of the most depressing aspects of the referendum has been social media. Sometimes there is genuine debate, but a lot of the time someone from either side will come along, insult anyone not voting the same way as them, swear, go in for such excessive text speak middle aged women like me struggle to understand them, and then tag lots of their friends to pile in. Will FB ever go back to pictures of cats and quizzes on what sweeties from the 70s people remember?

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/08/2014 23:50

Agreed, there are maybe more sub levels between options 1 and 2!

I've also found some of the social media truly depressing. The amount of stuff I have seen which is either vile, offensive, hideously inaccurate or just trite crap makes me feel like de-registering for the next month! Especially when it's shared by what you would have considered to be relatively sensible people.

WhatTheFork · 17/08/2014 23:52

Wtf will everyone speak about on FB post 18/9?

I will have to get a kitten to give me something to post about Grin

OOAOML · 17/08/2014 23:56

I don't have a cat so will probably have to share inspirational quizzes on 'what colour is your aura' and stuff like that. Or we could all go out and chisel stickers off lamp posts.

StatisticallyChallenged · 17/08/2014 23:58

That sounds like a great excuse to get another cat to me, must relay that one to DH Grin