to wonder how Scotland's decision will affect england?

[LEMmingaround]

Just that really? If they do go their ownway how will it affect england?

Also will it open a can of worms with wales and northern Ireland?

Sorry. Nothing wrong with high tax rates if they are paying for a top notch welfare state. Look at Denmark, stupidly high taxes and the happiest people in the world!

And no, we are not ethnically different from the English, we are pretty identical. But we are a separate country.

I have no interest in nationalism. Unless believing that a country governing itself is nationalism. All over the workd its condsidered normal. Nor do i think that I am in any way Scandinavian (another irish hybrid) not have I encountered any yes voter who does. Anecdote of course, but so is yours.
Do you have a link to Salmonds statements?

funny sorry for delay - work getting in the way again!

His parents seem to be split - his father vey left wing, criticising Churchill for disputes with coal miners in the early 20th century. His mother was apparently a Conservative and great admirer of Churchill, mainly due to WW2.

Sneaky iPad mums netting at work - will try and get quotes. I wasn't at the event but have read about in the papers.

No quotes necessary thanks, that explains it - I had wondered if it was about Gallipoli.

we are a separate country.

Possibly there we have the crux of the matter - I don't see us as a separate country. Yes, there is a Scottish identity ( well a range really, we're fairly diverse) but then so do other parts of the UK. I know some people feel the separateness strongly, but many others don't.

I imagine Gallipoli would add to the opinion TBH!

I don't have a strong view on Churchill, I just thought it was bad to discuss a resurgence of Scottish identity using that kind of attitude. He seems to have been trying to contrast the differing views of his parents, and quite possibly he didn't phrase it the way he intended, but still....

Possibly there we have the crux of the matter - I don't see us as a separate country

Indeed. I guess part of the whole identity crisis is do you see your self as Scottish/Northern Irish/Welsh/English or British.

It has to be said though, that no matter what you may feel, Scotland is a country, just not currently a sovereign one.

Thing is, that example (imho) isn't even a good example of a different Scottish and English identity; I had English ancestors who thought in pretty much the same terms i.e. along class lines due to working in industrial cities.

Britain as a whole did not vote for Churchill after the war despite his role as war leader precisely because many were ready for something new.

Monty which statement of Salmond's to link? He is constantly on tv and in the newspapers here rambling on and on about Scandinavia. The man is obsessed with Scandinavia. Just google "Alex Salmond Norway" or "Alex Salmond Scandinavia" and you will see what I mean.

It cant just be the oil, as Sweden and Denmark aren't huge oil countries.

Itsallgoingtobefine you just don't get it, do you? Your world is very simple. Not everyone wants to live in that simple world alongside you, having all their salary taken away in tax and being told what to think and do.

Denmark has one of the largest budget deficits in the EU and, like Norway and Sweden, unless you want to spend your life living in a small apartment on a provincial town, travelling to work on crappy slow expensive public transport (albeit with nice art installations) supporting your husband financially while working full time after your maternity leave to pay all those high taxes.

Maybe no supporters tend towards an already low standard of living, and think independence will give them a boost?

Itsallgoingtobefine you just don't get it, do you? Your world is very simple. Not everyone wants to live in that simple world alongside you, having all their salary taken away in tax and being told what to think and do.

No. You don't get it. I was giving my personal opinions on some views expressed on here. I do not for one second claim to represent the yes voting population. You would find with a small amount of research that people want independence for all sorts of reasons. Many Yes voters will strongly disagree with each other's views for the future. The important thing is that with independence these views matter. Independence is not the end, it is just the start. Your personal attack came across as very ignorant and overly simplistic.

Denmark has one of the largest budget deficits in the EU

UK public debt: 76.1% gdp (2014)
Denmark public debt: 44.5% GDP (2013)

Norway and Sweden, unless you want to spend your life living in a small apartment on a provincial town, travelling to work on crappy slow expensive public transport (albeit with nice art installations)

Nice bit of random, incorrect stereotyping there. When did you live there?

Maybe no supporters tend towards an already low standard of living, and think independence will give them a boost?

Aspiring toward a better standard of living is a bad thing?

Direct quote from the Bank of England
"To be clear, consistent with its statement in December 2012, the Bank of England has not entered into discussions with representatives of the Scottish Government about proposals for future monetary arrangements in Scotland"

The Scottish Government was caught out on a bare-faced lie about its EU "legal opinion"

I know which one I believe.

I guess part of the whole identity crisis is do you see your self as Scottish/Northern Irish/Welsh/English or British

I don't have an identity crisis and never have had. I've never identified myself along these lines beyond the fact my nationality is British. If I'm part of any identity based group it's one based on class, education, profession, and cultural and artistic interests not where I or my parents were born.

If I'm part of any identity based group it's one based on class, education, profession, and cultural and artistic interests not where I or my parents were born.

Its never been about where you are born/your ancestors are born - its about where you live e.g. see the English for Yes, Africans for Yes, Poles for Yes etc campaigns.

"Mr Carney's comments, which were welcomed by the Scottish government, came during a Bank of England media event in London on Thursday.

The governor said: "I have not had any discussions with members of the Scottish government.

"My predecessor did have some very basic technical discussions with Mr Salmond within the course of the last couple of years. I certainly welcome the opportunity to have those discussions."

"There has been an effort to set up a meeting and I'm sure it will happen at some point."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25154758

I live in Scotland, as part of the wider UK. For a minority (mainly I've seen it on Facebook, with lots of Braveheart style sentiment) it is about where you're born.

I'm Scottish, but not in a huge way -more in the way a friend describes herself as a Yorkshire lass. I'm also very definitely British though. My colleagues are partly in Edinburgh and in two English cities and I don't consider them to be in a different country or foreign. I'd find it very strange to consider an English person as a foreigner. I feel I have more in common than I have differences.

Itsallgoingtobefibe Do you think that helps your case? Salmond had a brief discussion a while back with Carney's predecessor. And from that the SNP desperately want to spin a yarn that they actually have any idea of what will happen if there is a yes vote. Economical with the actualité perhaps?

I agree it's about where one lives. I don't see however why that has to be Scotland rather than the UK. It's also not correct that it's nothing to do with where one is born. The SNP's stock response, certainly at the start of this , was that anyone not in favour was not proud to be Scottish. I admit they have had to tone that nonsense down but you are wrong that being "Scottish" was never part of this.

I don't think of English people as foreigners, but then I guess I don't really see people as foreigners in general, having family all over the world might impact that?

What I do see as foreign and other is the WM parliament with MPs resigning because their vast fees aren't enough to live on, unelected lords paid £300/day to sleep, ridiculous expenses claims, subsidised gourmet food and drink, overwhelmingly privately educated with no idea of the world most people live in. In no way do they represent me or my ideals.

Oops, sorry for the rant

I agree with others it is not a different country.

Parts of the legal system are different and a lot of the education system is but so what? That applies to US states and Canadian provinces but they're still one country.

us states and Canadian provinces weren't historically recently sovereign countries.

I'm Scottish first, with British a distant 2nd (which is the opposite of how I felt in 1979 when I wasn't allowed to vote even though I was on the register ). Not by birth but by adoption (in fact, Scots is one of the few European nationalities that I can't find any trace of in my family tree, going back to the 16th century )

I find the talk about foreigners quite depressing and insular if not xenophobic . I used to have to do a lot with colleagues in Ireland when I worked for ICI. Never crossed my mind I was working with "foreigners" or even that that might be an issue

Come to think of it, even when I've been dealing with people - colleagues or customers - outwith the British Isles (whether with ICI or more recently with a different company where I did a lot of work with Iceland the country not the shop ) and it never occurred to me to treat them as anything other than people

Of course Scotland is a different country, we were a completely separate country before the UK.

The UK may have tried to obliterate Scotland and it's history and over many generations has done such a good job that people believe it.

I feel sorry for you.

According to a recent article MSPs are four times as likely to be privately educated compared to the population. They're hardly a representative bunch either. Salmond got caught lying about expenses recently.

Msp basic salary is 53091. Mp is 67060. A difference yes but given one is a London based job -London mps don't get extra -and one Scotland the difference isn't that big. Looking at the annual survey of household earnings an mp is just above the 80th percentile for full time London employees. An Msp is slightly further above the 80th percentile for Edinburgh. So their salaries are broadly equivalent.

Salmond gets paid 129998. Cameron gets 142000.

Maximum London rental allowance is 20100, Edinburgh is 11400. Probably about right given comparable rents, frankly I bet the Edinburgh allowance gets you a better property!

I do not believe Scottish politicians are any better.

Don't patronise me by feeling sorry for me. I'm fully aware of Scottish history, but the world moves on. Boundaries change, allegiances change. I'm Scottish and British. Would you feel sorry for a californian who also considered themselves American?

300 years is a very long time. I don't see the need to define myself by 300 year old borders. If everyone in the world did that we'd all be in a big mess.

Itsallgoingtobefine Texas only joined the Union in 1845. I can't be bothered googling them all but the states have been united far more "recently" than the United Kingdom.
Recently to me is within living memory, not 300 years.