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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if you pay for a surrogate baby that you decide you don't want you should pay for the op he needs.

563 replies

sashh · 02/08/2014 07:14

An Australian couple have paid a Thai woman to be a surrogate, she had twins but one has Down Syndrome so they left him behind and took his sister home.

He has a hole in the heart (news reporting that it is in addition to DS, actually it is more likely part of the DS) and his mum can't afford his op.

Surely the least you can do is pay for his bloomin' op?

Obviously there should have been an agreement with who pays for what under what circumstances but in reality is a poor person in a developing country going to think about that?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28617912

www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-01/mother-of-thai-baby-abandoned-by-surrogate-parents-struggles-to/5642478

OP posts:
ToffeeMoon · 05/08/2014 20:56

What does that mean maryz? A child remains in care unless a family member takes them?

Maryz · 05/08/2014 21:55

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

drspouse · 05/08/2014 22:30

I really think surrogacy just needs to be outlawed now. I would not be in the least bit surprised if there are many cases we don't know about of paedophiles having babies in order to abuse them.

This is one of those "ban the internet because people groom teenagers on it" suggestions. Paedophiles can often easily persuade women to marry them and have children the old-fashioned way. Or to be their girlfriend, split up, oh I have lots of money dear so I'll raise the child. No surrogates needed.

I wonder if they would have been allowed to have IVF in the UK, though, I'm not completely sure but there is a welfare of the child assessment, though I don't know for sure if it involves a criminal check.

microcosmia · 05/08/2014 22:45

I read earlier where the surrogate has said she would be prepared to take the little girl too, if legally allowed. I've no idea if that's a runner. But it's so sad to think the twins might not be reunited at some point.

microcosmia · 06/08/2014 00:12

There'd been a report on Australian news that the Thai authorities are considering charging the surrogate with child trafficking on account of the fact she was paid for the surrogacy which they are trying to clamp down on.

I really hope some good news comes next as it's been worse after bad so far.

Mammuzza · 06/08/2014 00:19

It might only be a warning shot micro, to get her to stop giving interviews. And she has, citing exhustion.

microcosmia · 06/08/2014 00:31

You could be right about that Mammuzza, I hadn't considered that. There's been so much publicity no wonder she's exhausted.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 06/08/2014 01:21

Oh how awful, just read the latest revelations about the father.

It just keeps getting worse

Poor twins. Poor little innocent babies caught up in a sick mans desires, illegal exploitation of women and international policy. They're just babies :(

londonrach · 06/08/2014 06:49

Just read it. Someone needs take that baby girl away from that couple now. Don't leave her with him for a second longer and put the twins together. Personally I think even the surrogate mother shouldn't have them. The most important thing is getting the twins back together and that little baby girl away from that man. Poor babies.

Mammuzza · 06/08/2014 08:27

Someone needs take that baby girl away from that couple now.

They might not be able to. I've been read some Australian commentators. The father may have chosen his home state carefully, becuase (if I've understood this correctly) they have more lax policies on many issues when compared to other states. So in WA there is no automatic removal of a child when it is discovered he is a convicted child sex offender. Removal occurs only if he is considered still a threat to the child today.

I'm not sure exactly how that works in practice , but if he hasn't been caught recently, and the child in his care isn't in his preferred age range to abuse, they may leave her where she is.

One thing I am not clear on is if the above is relevant for ALL children born to convicted child sex offender, or just the ones using international surrogacy.

The only thing I can think of is given the worldwide media spotlight the authorties might take a more cautious line with him than they normally would, if the state laws leaves them room to do that.

If they do remove her she is their responsibility and is at least half Australian making her an Australian citizen according to the (laxer than other states) state laws. So she'll probably enter the long term foster care system. Becuase as Maryz points out, the Australian adoption system looks to be a lot closer to Ireland and Italy than it is the UK. They can't just ship her off to Thailand to her surrogate mother.

Both those children have their futures up in the air. If the Thai authorities have any serious doubts

  • about the surrogate family's ability to care well for the boy in the long term, which could mean more bad PR.

-have become aware of any (negstive media attention attracting) skeletons in their closet (bear in mind we know nothing about the legal father, he may have been kept off camera for a reason rather than logistics)

-aren't convinced the legal mother will maintain an off camera/no more interviews status

.... then they could remove the boy from her care. And they have sanctions up their sleeve as an ace in terms of persuading her to relinquish him. She has other children she can't care for if she's in the slammer.

In short. This is an unholy mess. And it may not have a happy ending for one, or both of the children at the sharp end.

And it's not just these two children. There are other babies in utero in Thailand with Australian intended parents. They are in legal limbo right now. Theoretically at least they could end up in Thai orphanages. Some of them may be untracable as agencies disappear off the face of the earth shredding records as they go, and surrogates go to ground to avoid arrest and charges of conspiracy to human traffic.

Hard to say at the moment if the Thai gov. will sort out an amnesty period for already concieved children, or not. But I do believe that is potentially part of why they wanted Gammy's mum off camera and interviews. They will need a ittle shade from the media sun to work that bit out off camera rather than having to isntantly react to every new wave of revelations, updates and "he said" "she said".

Surfsup1 · 06/08/2014 09:53

Maryz
'children remain in the care of the state in long-term foster care"

This is no longer the case. These days if a child has been with a stable foster family for 18 months, in most cases they are automatically able to be adopted by the foster family.

Surfsup1 · 06/08/2014 09:53

In Australia that is.

Mammuzza · 06/08/2014 10:04

This is no longer the case. These days if a child has been with a stable foster family for 18 months, in most cases they are automatically able to be adopted by the foster family.

That is good news.

SweetSummerSweetPea · 06/08/2014 10:05

Removal occurs only if he is considered still a threat to the child today

with all press coverage and latest sick and revolting revalations lets hope they keep a close eye on him if they dont remove her.

Mammuzza · 06/08/2014 10:15

sweet well I suppose with all the publicity in the case they'd be inclined to err on the side of caution.

Plus the fact that he's gone to ground and they can't find them might go against him.

It'll cause sharp intakes of breath if the dog gets taken off them and the baby not. That stands a good chance of being packaged into headlines of the "more protection afforded to pets than children" kind.

If the limits of the law allow them to remove her, I guess they'd more inclined to than not. Probably depends on all the legally details and how much wriggle room they offer the authorities.

SweetSummerSweetPea · 06/08/2014 10:47

It'll cause sharp intakes of breath if the dog gets taken off them and the baby not very true.

soverylucky · 06/08/2014 11:18

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Mammuzza · 06/08/2014 11:58

To be fair, they knew where the dog was. The baby.... not so much.

Maryz · 06/08/2014 12:56

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Mammuzza · 06/08/2014 13:11

do hope there is some way of mitigating the disaster of surrogate mothers being left with babies they don't want and biological parents never knowing what happened to their babies

I think both governement would prefer to avoid a Water Torture drip drip drip of heart rending stories in the international press. So maybe it's possible there will be a "below the radar", quiet sort of amnestry that will allow "better late than never" background checks to happen and tranfer of already concived babies on humanitarian grounds once they are born.

I can certainly see the Thai side going for something like that. Don't know if it would be workable from an australian perspective. Cos there's state laws as well as national laws involved.

Thumbwitch · 06/08/2014 13:27

Bear in mind that Australia has a very uncomfortable history over the "forced adoptions", for which several of the states and Julia Gillard (when she was PM) have formally apologised, and the others have plans to apologise soon.

Parental consent is still required in most cases before adoption can go ahead.
However, there are situations when adoption can take place without parental consent:
"Can adoption proceed without a parent's consent?

The Adoption Act 2009 (QLD) allows the Children’s Court to make an order dispensing with a parent’s consent if the court is satisfied that there are grounds for dispensing with the need for the parent’s consent and it is in the child’s best interests for arrangements for the child’s adoption to continue. The grounds on which the need fro a parent’s consent may be dispensed include:

•when a parent does not have the capacity to consent;
•where the identity or location of a parent cannot be established;
•if the child was conceived as a result of sexual assault;
•where there is an unacceptable risk of harm to the child or parent if the other parent were made aware of the child’s birth or proposed adoption."

Either birth parent can stop an adoption if they revoke consent within 30 days of signing the consent forms; but once the adoption order has been made, the birth parents cannot get their child back.

However, that is just in Queensland - WA don't seem to have changed their legislation since the Adoption Act of 1994.

DOCS can remove children for their own safety, but they can't easily get the child to be signed over for adoption by the courts, unless the above criteria are fulfilled, so the baby would probably go into the fostering system. Them being "unfit parents" isn't actually one of the criteria, so if they refused to give consent then the child would have to go for longterm fostering.

Surfsup - where do you get your information from, and to which state(s) is it applicable? Foster families can indeed expect to adopt a child who has been with them for 2 consecutive years, but it still appears that parental consent is required (apart from the exceptions listed above, but that may still only apply in QLD)

Maryz · 06/08/2014 14:20

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KoalaDownUnder · 06/08/2014 14:39

Surfsup, I can't cite sources at the moment but I am sure that is not correct.

Thumbwitch · 06/08/2014 14:42

I have a friend who is a short term foster care mum - she's fostered dozens of babies (her speciality, I don't know how she does it, I wouldn't want to give them back!). She knows a fair few foster parents/families and she says it's upsetting really because often the children feel slightly displaced - they're with their long term foster family, but not really a full part of it, because their parents won't relinquish parental rights for whatever reason :(

Maryz · 06/08/2014 14:49

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