To think if you pay for a surrogate baby that you decide you don't want you should pay for the op he needs.

[sashh]

An Australian couple have paid a Thai woman to be a surrogate, she had twins but one has Down Syndrome so they left him behind and took his sister home.

He has a hole in the heart (news reporting that it is in addition to DS, actually it is more likely part of the DS) and his mum can't afford his op.

Surely the least you can do is pay for his bloomin' op?

Obviously there should have been an agreement with who pays for what under what circumstances but in reality is a poor person in a developing country going to think about that?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28617912

www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-01/mother-of-thai-baby-abandoned-by-surrogate-parents-struggles-to/5642478

[silveroldie2]

Bertana I have reported your post - you have pulled up an old thread simply to spam/sell a seminar - and have posted the same information four times on different threads.

It's not what MN is for.

[Surfsup1]

Just re-checked, and everything I can find says that regardless of whether he is the biological father, the surrogate mother has 100% of the rights over the babies and does not have to hand them over unless she wants to. i.e. the biological parents have no legal claim at all under Thai law.
Amazing that so many people are willing to take that risk!!

[Surfsup1]

Dever, I'm not at all sure that Thai law would not be biased towards locals over foreigners, especially under the new regime. It's not like you're talking about a colonial power governing over an indigenous minority (like here in Aus).
Not that I'm excusing them in any way. One of them could easily have left with the girl and left the other parent to stay and fight for Gammy, or they could have flown the baby girl home and one of them returned for Gammy.
The fact that they did neither suggests their motives are far more complex than they would have us believe.

[Deverethemuzzler]

surfs that is technically correct if he isn't the genetic father but even if that is the case since when has the law protected poor indigenous women?
If he is the genetic father he has rights AND money.

[JellybeansInTheSky]

Well put it this way since they left they certainly haven't been behaving like caring, loving parents who were forced against their will to leave their little boy in Thailand.

I am sure it is either a lie or a half truth for them to say the surrogate wouldn't let Gammy go. The only motivation for her to keep him was altruistic. It was totally unforseeable that so much money would be raised on line for his treatment. The most likely outcome was that she would be unable to work and further forced into poverty while caring for a sick, disabled boy who she would come to love and who would then die.

Also I find the line that they didn't ask the surrogate to have a really late abortion at around 7 months and just asked the agency for a refund bizarre. What did they think the agency would then do if not try to put pressure on the surrogate to abort? How did they think the surrogate would then get paid?

Also they talk about how if they found out earlier that the baby had DS then they would have had a termination. Seemingly they don't seem to realise that there was someone else involved. Some one with their own body. Some one with whom they apparently hadn't even discussed their views on abortion. Some one who could actually feel the babies growing inside her and who would have actually had to have the abortion and deal with any feelings of regret or guilt.

[Surfsup1]

Dever, I believe that under Thai law the surrogate mother has total power. She hands over the babies purely at her own discretion, so she could certainly refuse to hand over 1 or both babies.

Then again, the information that is reported seems to change by the day, so I could still be wrong.

[Deverethemuzzler]

No I dont buy it. She had to hand over her girl so it seems odd that she would suddenly not only refuse to give them Gammy but also threaten to take the girl away too.

I mean really? What kind of power does a penniless 21 year old female have in these circumstances? An unregulated surrogate against a white, western man with money.

I don't believe a word he says.

[JellybeansInTheSky]

Why would an impoverished, single mother in a country with limited public health care refuse to hand over a child with health issues?

Assuming that they they are telling the truth about this I expect the reason is because the surrogate had bonded with Baby Gammy and her instincts told her that the Australia couple weren't going to care for him properly.

I actually think that the Australia couple did want to leave him and realized more clearly than the surrogate what the likely outcome of that would be. Fortunately (and thanks to the generosity of strangers) the surrogate was able to fight for Gammy to have the medical care he needs.

I think that his wife is still responsible for what has happened even if she is under his influence. The relationships board is full of people who have had dreadful childhoods. It seems that while often one parent is the main abuser the other parent is just as much responsible as they condone and enable the abuse.

[Surfsup1]

I just watched the interview. I have to say the wife creeped me out nearly as much as the husband! She looked like she was hiding a smile half the time and seemed utterly unmoved by the distress her husband was showing.
Did anyone else think she behaved very strangely?
I certainly didn't get the impression she was vein controlled by him as others did. The whole thing was really disturbing.

[Deverethemuzzler]

Why would an impoverished, single mother in a country with limited public health care refuse to hand over a child with health issues?

That doesn't make sense and that is what he said in that interview.

I could only watch a bit. All that fecking crying was so annoying. From the moment that started I could tell the whole interview would be pointless.

The man has massive issues. They are obvious.

[wanttosinglikemarycoughlan]

I thought that if it had not been for the controversy around the twins this man could have easily slipped under the radar
He has, I think, something like 22 convictions so I would expect him to be assessed as not suitable
I hope she leaves him
The dressing the child in blue, disturbing if true. Are they saying it because they think it will show them in a better light?

When I was going through ivf (successful I have a BC and AC) I used to think everyone should struggle a bit to really appreciate having a child. Some just get pregnant too easily

[MadonnaKebab]

He came over really badly in the 60 Minutes interview last night

Inconsistent with his explainations about why they left Gammy behind
Admitted they demanded their money back when they found out he had Downs and it was too late to terminate
Described the systematic grooming and abuse of 4 different girls aged 5+ over the course of a decade as "a mistake"
Kept bursting into tears whenever the questions got difficult

His wife came across as very much under his influence and not fluent in English. I think he is very used to controlling her and thought he'd be able to control the (female) interviewer and convince everyone he's the victim in all this.

He was mistaken

[MidniteScribbler]

I watched the interview last night, and I didn't believe a word of it. I truly think the best outcome would be for the mother and daughter to move far away from this man and not let him have any part in her upbringing, but I don't suspect that would happen. Hopefully, authorities will spend the next 18 years breathing down his neck so he can't put so much as a toenail out of line. I don't see any benefit in sending the child back to the surrogate, she is not their biological parent, and the child is now an Australian citizen.

I really do hope Thai authorities provide an amnesty period for any child already conceived by surrogates to ensure that they get to their biological parents. Perhaps handing over management of the cases to a group like Surrogacy Australia who can ensure that the surrogates have access to good medical treatment, counselling and will be financially compensated as originally planned and that the babies will be brought home to their parents legally after they are born.

[microcosmia]

I don't know what to make of the comment he made that they miss the boy so much that when the dad comes home his wife sometimes has dressed their little girl in blue

[microcosmia]

It's an interesting point you make about the case of a naturally conceived child of an offender, I don't know what happens in such cases or whether the authorities typically intervene, or even know.

My cousin went through IVF for nearly 10 years and IUI before conceiving four years ago, and she considered surrogacy with a relative too. She gave up on trying to adopt during that time it was going nowhere for her. This case evokes very strong feelings too for her, she really empathises with couples trying to go down the surrogate route now, for the same reasons.

[microcosmia]

It's an interesting point you make about the case of a naturally conceived child of an offender, I don't know what happens in such cases or whether the authorities typically intervene, or even know.

My cousin went through IVF for nearly 10 years and IUI before conceiving four years ago, and she considered surrogacy with a relative too. She gave up on trying to adopt during that time it was going nowhere for her. This case evokes very strong feelings too for her, she really empathises with couples trying to go down the surrogate route now, for the same reasons.

[microcosmia]

I did wonder if he said this because he expects it to happen, though there were a lot of mixed messages too so who can say what he really meant by it.

[microcosmia]

I can see why you would Maryz the man did say something to the effect that he would leave their lives so they could stay together, if I'm not mistaken, which sounds as though he has some insight into that possibility.

[microcosmia]

The link above may not work now - it's changed to a different title since.

This interview hasn't gone down well with the Australian public at any rate according to news.com.au

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

Well I must say its quite clever of him to try and play the victim (yet again), by claiming the surrogate mother was going to 'steal his babies' and they had to escape with one...

Clever, yet not terribly believable. He has the hallmarks of someone very used to spinning tales. Which you'd have to be as a convicted paedophile.