To wonder where the joy is in forcing someone to marry you?

[Fanfeckintastic]

This is probably going to sound awful and I'm so sorry if I offend!

A lot of my friends at the moment are getting engaged which I do think is lovely, but the vast majority have been trying to twist their DPs arm about it for at least a year+, a lot have been given ultimatums etc which I personally wouldn't be able to bear, I can see why if the woman wants to wait until married to have children etc and totally understand marriage is important to many people but personally I just think having to practically force someone to ask you would put a very bad taste in my mouth. But each and every time one of these guys propose to my friends, I genuinely am absolutely pleased for them, have even shed a tear of happiness knowing how much said friend has been waiting and worrying.
What I don't think the guys have been bargaining for is how fast said friends would start planning weddings and organising things. I get the impression these guys thought maybe the ring was buying them another couple of years but in so many cases I've seen friends enter wedding competitions, enquiring via Facebook about certain venues etc within days of getting the longed for proposal!
Why is it so often the women driving these things, does it not take the joy out of it?

AIBU for feeling this way? Do I sound jealous? I honestly don't think that's it at all, it just sometimes feels like watching a car crash about to happen!

Men who are nagged into marriage, ok PEOPLE who are nagged into marriage, are way more likely to seek freedom elsewhere. I have seen this happen on numerous occasions. People feed into this naggy wife, hassled husband stereotype and that's what they end up with - a hassled resentful husband who can't wait to get away, whether that's the pub, another woman or just away.

But where is the joy in knowing somebody isn't prepared to marry you if that's what you want. It doesn't matter if neither partner wants to get married or isn't bothered about marriage but it does matter if one person does and one doesn't. Why do these people not want to commit. And nagged into marriage and seek freedom elsewhere. I don't get this. Wouldn't they seek 'freedom' anyway. Freedom to do what. Form other relationships.

Some people fully intend to be long term monogamous but don't really value marriage as such. My male friend was adamant he wanted to be married before having children whereas his girlfriend wasn't really into it at all. Anyway, she eventually agreed as long as it was low-key as it meant so much to him but nothing really to her. Joyless perhaps but a decent compromise. They are happy, have three kids and she is a sahm.

Viviennemary I should have put inverted commas on 'freedom'. They view it as freedom because it is away from 'her indoors'. Generally the kind of men who let themselves be nagged into marriage are not going to be confident independent loving deep thinkers. And the kind of women who nag men into marriage are not going to stop once the ring is on the finger. In fact, the more I think of it, they probably deserve each other.

But where is the joy in knowing somebody isn't prepared to marry you if that's what you want.

There isn't any joy in knowing someone doesn't want to marry you. However, if they do get married (with or without pressure) then they were been prepared to do it (unless someone held a gun to their heads obviously).

Some people fully intend to be long term monogamous but don't really value marriage as such. My male friend was adamant he wanted to be married before having children whereas his girlfriend wasn't really into it at all.

I know loads of couples like that and I don't really see what is joyless about it. Marriage matters more to some people than others especially nowadays and the fact that one person is more keen on marriage than their partner doesn't necessarily reflect the state of their relationship or the future of their marriage.

Well I'm afraid I disagree. Why would somebody not want to get married to somebody they had been with for years. These sort of dragging their feet types finding every excuse in the book not to get married really annoy me. What are they so afraid of. It is difficult if both partners disagree about the importance or desirability of being married so one of them has to compromise in the end.

I suspect that men who don't want to get married actually really just want an "out" and wouldn't touch one with a bargepole myself. But that's a personal view.

As for having a huge, fancy wedding - there's really no need. Ours was simple (go to usual Sunday morning service in nice but not fancy clothes, no train of attendants, no fuss, stand up in the middle, get married, sign register, sit down again, listen to amusing sermon from guest preacher we asked to come, have a cheap and cheerful party afterwards) and inexpensive and just perfect. (also nearly 30 years ago, gosh).

I wasn't disagreeing with you whatever. But with Notsure about the types of people who nag or are nagged into marriage. I'm not talking about women or men for that matter who see every date as a potential husband/wife but people in long term relationships who want to be married but their partner doesn't.

Vivienne, I've been with DP for 9 years and we are fully committed and plan to stay together indefinitely but we won't be getting married. Marriage is not something I want to be a part of for all the feminist reasons that other posters have detailed on here many times. I would have a civil partnership like a shot but Dave in his wisdom has decided its not an option for opposite sex couples.

Having said all that, if we had a baby I would want to get married for purely financial and practical reasons but we are highly unlikely to be in this situation.

I think it's fine when both people agree not to get married. But not great when one doesn't. I agree civil partnerships should be open to everyone.

vivienne-

"Well I'm afraid I disagree. Why would somebody not want to get married to somebody they had been with for years. These sort of dragging their feet types finding every excuse in the book not to get married really annoy me. What are they so afraid of. ."

I am one of these types. I have no desire to get married. I have been with my OH for 18 years. He has asked me many times, but it's just not something that appeals to me.

Thankfully it is not something that eats away at him, he knows I am staying with him and can accept that marriage is not for me.

SGB I think that's sort of what I did. I was 21, started dating a guy, realized that we both liked books, were casually religious, wanted kids and marriage. He made me laugh and having sex with only him for the next fifty years or so sounded like a good deal rather than a prison sentence. So in my head I thought, "yup. It's you." The madly in love part came later.

But it's worked. :)

I don't see what the difference is between civil partnerships and marriage. To me it's the same thing and i didn't get why gay couples were so excited at getting married when they had civil partnerships, especially those who had already had a civil partnership. It's just a word.
Marriage doesn't have to mean white wedding with huge expense and umpteen distant relatives.
It's just a formal declaration of your love for each other and forms a good legal basis for having kids or if one of you dies.
The ceremony itself isn't that improtant, it's the legal framework it gives to the relationship afterwards that's important, and not having to talk about your "boyfriend" and sound about 15.

Combust, can I ask if you have something else legally in place that offers what the legal framework of marriage offers?

What's the difference between a civil partnership and a registry office wedding?

Actually, I think some of the people who won't actually marry a partner who desperately wants marriage are the ones who take marriage pretty seriously. They are refusing to marry their frantic partner because of this - while they are not married, even if they have a shared mortgage and DC, they still feel free to up and leave when someone they prefer comes along.

I'm 33. The friends who did this in their late 20s are already divorced.

curiosity, yes we do.

That sounds very sensible then. Does your dp still want the marriage for religious reasons or the romantic notion of it? After 18 years I imagine it would be strange to say you have only been married a year etc.

I will apologise in advance as I didn't intend for that to sound so patronising.

My OH wants it for the romantic angle. He understands my reasons and feels secure in the relationship- and does understand my point of view. It doesn't eat him up, the strangeness of being married for a year wouldn't trouble us.
I doubt we will ever marry.

If you got to cajole/bully/harangue then I think he didn't really want to marry

What actually are the benefits of being married these days though? Are there actually any? I just don't see the incentive now.

Benefits,keep the mn smug marrieds at bay as they bang on about marriage