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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder where the joy is in forcing someone to marry you?

204 replies

Fanfeckintastic · 31/07/2014 22:26

This is probably going to sound awful and I'm so sorry if I offend!

A lot of my friends at the moment are getting engaged which I do think is lovely, but the vast majority have been trying to twist their DPs arm about it for at least a year+, a lot have been given ultimatums etc which I personally wouldn't be able to bear, I can see why if the woman wants to wait until married to have children etc and totally understand marriage is important to many people but personally I just think having to practically force someone to ask you would put a very bad taste in my mouth. But each and every time one of these guys propose to my friends, I genuinely am absolutely pleased for them, have even shed a tear of happiness knowing how much said friend has been waiting and worrying.
What I don't think the guys have been bargaining for is how fast said friends would start planning weddings and organising things. I get the impression these guys thought maybe the ring was buying them another couple of years but in so many cases I've seen friends enter wedding competitions, enquiring via Facebook about certain venues etc within days of getting the longed for proposal!
Why is it so often the women driving these things, does it not take the joy out of it?

AIBU for feeling this way? Do I sound jealous? I honestly don't think that's it at all, it just sometimes feels like watching a car crash about to happen!

OP posts:
CheerfulYank · 01/08/2014 05:27

I didn't twist DH's arm, but I was up front about my plan for life, which didn't include living with a partner or having children while unmarried.

I do know what you mean, OP. My best friend practically beat her husband into it.

GreenTeaHoneysuckle · 01/08/2014 07:40

That's fair enough cheerfulyank. Women are allowed to have a plan. I'll advise both my chidlren (b&g) to discuss it. Not sit around waiting to be asked, or feel that it's his decision alone whether to 'pop' the question.

Gennz · 01/08/2014 07:52

We met when I was 19, nearly 20, and DH was 23. I was still at uni and DH had just finished. I was 24 when we moved in together, 25 when we moved to London together and at abot 26 I said ok are we getting married or what? I hadn't been "waiting" all that time, I had plenty on my plate but after 6 years together & living together I thought we should formalise it (or if he really didn't want to I would have ended it but there was never an ultimatum as we both seemed to be on the same page). We got engaged about a year after the topic of marriage first came up, and got married 8 months later.

To cut a long story short, it kind of depends on your perspective - looking at my situation you could interpret it as me waity-ing around for DH to propose and then swiftly frogmarching him down the aisle, but it didn't feel like that at all to me - I would never have dreamt of getting married or engaged in my early 20's, even though DH and I were very much together and once we'd got engaged, the decision was made and there was no point faffing around with a long engagement obsessing over place settings.

weatherall · 01/08/2014 07:58

We are unmarried.

There have been peers who haver met married, had DCs and divorced in the time we've been together.

There is a turning 30 thing that while groups of friends all get married within 2 years of each other. I think this is peer pressure and not a coincidence.

We live in new times where we are still working out the social norms of lt cohabitation.

toomuchtooold · 01/08/2014 08:01

Are you in your 30s OP? I am and some of.my friends have been doing this but I think it's to do with having kids. Bloke happy in principle to have a family but not in any hurry, girl a bit closer to the realities and not wanting to leave it too late. And getting your OH to say yes to a big day full of flowers and stupid clothes and your mother nipping his brain is a decent show of faith in terms of being up for fatherhood/the long haul.

GhettoFabulous · 01/08/2014 08:02

I don't understand why people don't have these conversations up front at the dating stage. Before we'd even met, Daddy B and I had confirmed that we were both looking for a longterm partner, that he was child free by choice and that marriage was important to me.

Choose a partner based on shared values and life is so much easier. Shame it took me til my forties to figure that one out!

Iffy2014 · 01/08/2014 08:10

I suppose my perspective on engagement is different then. It just irritates me when, especially in RL, someone says, "So you're not really engaged then." Erm, yes, I am. We have promised to marry one another. Just about as engaged as it gets. I just don't plan on booking venues for about a year. I'm still doing some fun bits like going to wedding fayres and talking with DP about venue ideas. The one bit we have sorted is the wedding car, as it's a nice family car my dad owns which gets rolled out on these occasions.

To be fair, we could afford to pay for the whole shindig through savings next week if we had a mind to do it. But we have spent a few years now planning and saving to buy a family-sized house outright or with a large % deposit. There's still a little time left on our years-long plan for that, and I'd rather not give up now when we'll be through in just over a year, hopefully.

Balaboosta · 01/08/2014 08:38

YABU for "laxy Daisy"

(Miles up thread. Bores self)

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 01/08/2014 08:46

Laxy daisy was probably an autocorrect.

I think being engaged is actually a status in ita own right these days.

I know several people who have been engaged for 10 years and talk about their fiance like you would your husband.

But some of them do look at dresses all the time and would love to get married and the man won't. Which tends to put me off the man.

Damnautocorrect · 01/08/2014 09:13

It's one thing being upfront if marriage is important but I've seen the arm twisting you talk about, it's bloody awkward if your a spectator and must be awful to be on the receiving end. If you've had the 'it's important to me' conversation before that's it, ask or wait to be asked. Don't berate, black mail or go on and on.

noddyholder · 01/08/2014 09:15

I am approaching 50 and my 2 friends who did this in our 30s are both divorcing.

noddyholder · 01/08/2014 09:17

If its about children and you think its important I do think you should marry first. It was never important to me so I didn't but I have friends who really want to get married and partners just won't. If too much time passes they feel it pointless

Cereal0ffender · 01/08/2014 09:18

My dh asked me repeatedly to marry him, I really didn't want to, I wanted to be with him but couldn't see the point in marriage frankly. I did marry him but my lack of enthusiasm about marrying him does not make me love him less or more likely to run off with the first person I meet.

noddyholder · 01/08/2014 09:21

I agree cereal. I think there are financial legal issues when children are small but once they are older not so much.

Latara · 01/08/2014 09:22

I know of a couple where the woman had 2 kids, a house and was desperate to be engaged and married but the man just wouldn't budge.
It got silly in the end because I think the woman was questioning why he wouldn't even get engaged when she'd had his 2 children, and all his mates kept winding him up about it.
Finally he gave in and they got engaged, then married. But it's not very romantic to do it like that.

But then what do I know? I can't even get a man to go past about 7 dates with me (sob).

I wonder what it is with these men (and women - I know a woman who took ages to agree to marry her fiancé).
Is it that they are just lazy and happy with the status quo?
Are they really in love or are they settling?
If they are settling then it's just really sad for their partner I think - I'd hate to be the one 'settled for.'

Ragwort · 01/08/2014 09:24

Totally agree with Ghetto - if marriage is important to you - why on earth buy a house/have children etc without getting married Hmm?

Another part of the whole marriage/wedding debate to me is that so many people think too much of the 'wedding day' rather than the marriage - I have been married (twice Grin) but the actual 'wedding day' was a very small part of it, no way was I interested in a big white dress/party/presents etc etc - too many people women seem caught up in the whole extravaganza of a big expensive day which I bet does put a lot of men off.

Latara · 01/08/2014 09:26

With the woman I know who took ages to marry her partner - she was definitely 'settling'. She wasn't bothered about him when she started dating him although he was in love with her pretty much straight away.

She just wanted a boyfriend and kept cheating on him.

Now they have 2 children which is what she wanted out of the relationship and he's persuaded her to marry him which is what he wanted. But I know she's just settled because she's had his children and is worried that she won't meet anyone else - before feeling sorry for him I might add that he's can get abusive when drunk.

AnnaLegovah · 01/08/2014 09:27

I agree OP. I know several friends (now we're into our early 30's) that are doing the same. For example, I know a guy who's just asked his long-distance girlfriend of 6 months to marry him. No problem with that - but I know him well enough to know its mostly down to the fact that all his friends are married themselves. I can see him thinking he's being left behind.

One of DH's cousins has been 'engaged' for 12 years now. In the meantime they've had DC and bought a house together, but absolutely no plans to pick a date, a venue or anything. That's not an engagement as far as I can see.

StrawberryMouse · 01/08/2014 09:32

My friends are mid to late twenties and I don't see a lot of this happening with them. Everybody getting engaged / married seems to want to. Others remain happily single.

There is a lot of it on here sometimes. Mostly people who have made it known that they want to get married before starting a family etc. They have a loose time scale in their heads and feel they are running out of time hence a vague desperation to tie themselves to the person they are with at the time just because they are both 35 and not because the relationship is particularly wonderful.

StrawberryMouse · 01/08/2014 09:37

On the other side of things though, lots of men don't seem to know or care about the workings of women's fertility and the fact that sometimes there are narrow windows. Or appreciate that lots of women are screwed financially by having children.

PenelopePitstops · 01/08/2014 09:46

I don't see much of this but I am mid twenties.

As for 'engagement parties', surely that's just the wedding.

JackieBrambles · 01/08/2014 09:58

I think it’s often the woman driving these things (wanting to get engaged, planning the venue etc) because they feel a time pressure.

If you want to be married before you have kids (I certainly did), and you are in your 30s, then of course you want to move things on quickly towards getting wed so you can crack on with TTC before time runs out!

If you feel that pressure though, I do think it’s weird to put the pressure on your OH to propose. Just do it yourself for heaven’s sake! If he doesn’t want to marry you, at least you have your answer and can move on!

My now DH asked me, but I would certainly have asked him if I was worried about time running out for getting married before having kids. As it was we had only been living together for 6 months when he asked me and I was 34. If I had been 36 and he hadn’t asked me then I probably would have asked him.

Callani · 01/08/2014 09:58

I think StrawberryMouse has hit on something. When I first started dating DP we had one of the "this is what I want" conversations about marriage and kids and DP was genuinely surprised that his idea to "leave having kids to mid to late 30s at least" was a deal breaker for me.

He just had no idea about female fertility because "well there's loads of celebrities who have kids way into their 40s"

FraidyCat · 01/08/2014 10:07

marriage actually benefits men more than it does women

Compared to living together? Unless the man is the lower earner, I don't see how.

As someone said, it benefits the financially weaker partner. If there is a significant disparity in earnings or wealth the better-off partner would be insane to get married. If the marriage is destined to be forever the weaker-partner protections of marriage are superfluous. If it isn't, then they harm the interest of the better-off-partner. In neither scenario is marriage justifiable to the better-off partner.

FraidyCat · 01/08/2014 10:12

I think that there are a significant number of women who want a wedding, rather than a marriage. I had a girlfriend who told me about a friend of hers who enjoyed her wedding, but literally woke up the day after the wedding and realised she didn't actually want to be married to the guy. They divorced within a year.