To ask DP to forgive me for DS's birth?

[CulturalBear]

Have posted a few times about moderately crap DS birth.

Nutshell - waters broke, on drip 40 hours later, needed forceps/episiotomy, later abandoned on recovery ward (with naked baby) by hospital staff and DP for 4-5hours. DS largely fine, I was largely fine.

A year and a bit on, and it still bothers me.

Someone IRL recently told me the usual 'all that matters' is that DS is fine and I need to let it go - and asked what I needed to do that.

It occurred to me around DS's first birthday that I need DP to forgive me. He has never given me any praise or credit around the birth or year since - never said well done or that he's proud of me, or that I'm a good mum or even thank you for the things I do - all normal things a dad might say to his partner.

He is basically Spock when it comes to feelings - he logics the shit out of them so they don't trouble him.

But I believe that him not saying these things implies he feels ashamed of me. I think that if I could get him to express forgiveness for screwing up or letting him/DS down, then I might be able to let go this over-riding sense of failure I've had since.

For the record, I 100% do not judge the way that anyone else gives birth - it's bloody hard work and requires a huge amount of effort however it happens - I just wish I, personally, had done better. I have never been given a reason for needing the interventions other than 'he was a bit stuck'.

Ideally DS would tell me he forgives me - but I'm not sure I could wait 18+ years!

Would I be unreasonable to ask DP to forgive me? If not, how do I go about it?

Acolyte my DH thanked me and told me how proud of me he was when I had DD. We now have a Ds too and he expresses his gratitude at least once or twice a week.

Op I have nothing more to add to what already has been said. Please be kind to yourself.

Mine said nothing, gave nothing, but I know he is proud etc. They dont always have to say everything or even give material gifts although I am still hanging out for two beautiful rings

I also had significant unspoken expectations of the way DP would respond to me. I knew it was unrealistic to expect/hope he might shed a tear - but I did hope he would be able to 'be present' and be there for me, and give me what I needed for once

This rings true to me. I expected my DP to behave in a certain way during and after the birth of our first baby and he didn't - no tears, no congratulations, no making a fuss of the first picture etc.

What redexpat says is true: people do deal with, and communicate, emotions very differently. Some of what you would have like to have happened were just your (and also my) ideas of what the birth experience would be like - but almost like daydreams, in a way.

I think there are many other things that come out of your posts which say there are things you need to address within your relationship. Otherwise, to be honest, I think you would be like me and knittedjimmychoos whose OH's didn't say or do anything, but we didn't think they felt negatively about us or the experience.

As for the birth, it is a harder thing to let go of what happened, but all I can do is reiterate what everyone else is said and say It Was Not Your Fault. It really, really wasn't.

I too am sending heartfelt hugs and a great big WELL DONE to you. You did an amazing job!! I too had birth issues...but got help...later than I should have done...17 years later I still sometimes feel sad. My DH is a man of few words and he has never 'thanked' me for his 3 children...but I know he cares. It was hard too for him witnessing such a horrible time.
OBEM has shown horrendous births...babies shoulders getting stuck is one I vividly remember. You have no reason to apologize either. I just know my DH would not have wanted to talk about what happened to me and that was ok. I talked to my female friends.

Oh don't mind me, I think I am probably the abnormal one and in no way snide as a pp suggested.

I don't need my dh to thank/congratulate/praise me in anything I do, never have and hopefully never will.

I think I'd be a bit bemused if he started doing it now.

I put my oddity down to being a twin and having a very complex relationship with her.

Apologies for skipping bits of the thread OP but I think you do have a form of PND and I think you do need to speak to someone about it.

You may not need AD's, but counselling may help.

FWIW, I had a 48 hour labour and ended up having an EMCS after unsuccessful induction and having my waters broken.

I was chatting to a friend a few days ago who has recently had a baby. She is tiny and her baby was huge, so she ended up having an EMCS too. She feels that she has 'failed'.

I don't see it like that.

The baby needed to be got out. The baby was got out. Mother and baby are well.

My DD is 3 now and occasionally gets a mark showing on her face when she's upset/stressed. No foreceps were used so I assume it's something from the CS. But she's healthy. In fact, she's healthier than most of her peers.

I don't have any issues with not doing birth naturally. I'm told it bloody hurts. I was exhausted, and my cervix didn't dilate enough. I wasn't going to be able to keep awake and trying to dilate/push so the surgery was necessary. I get very annoyed with anyone who suggests I didn't do enough.

I too had a horrific birth and subsequent recovery. I found specialist perinatal counselling really helpful in getting over it psychologically. I paid for it privately as the specialist counsellor wasn't funded by the NHS any more. It took that and plenty of time for me to get to the 'shit happens' place I'm now in. I think your DH may just be where you need to get to yourself and you need to find a path there too.

And I don't expect praise or thanks from DH. He adores DD as do I. That seems to me enough.

Sorry you feel this way, maybe you should talk to HV who could advise you.

If it is not within visiting hours, all partners are chucked out post delivery, whether you are well or not.

In the recovery ward, if staff are concerned about you they ask that you keep the curtains open so they can keep an eye on you. This said, my DC1 was forceps and I had a spinal so legs completely paralysed and we fended on our own all night. Same with the sectioned ladies.

With DC3 the lady next to me seriously hacked me off. She had been through the wars, but the way she described her birth over and over, it was like she was the only one who had ever given birth, and not terribly considerate to the other ladies who had gone through the same experience around her but were less vocal. And her husband fussed and fussed and they kept saying how they wanted a private room and how they could pay for it, no problem. Every time someone came to check on them, they asked. Well, one private room was taken by a very poorly lady and the other by someone who had just had triplets. Again, all the other ladies in that wing rolled their eyes, although the request was reasonable, it was not very considerate to the others.

Just realised that my little vent had little to do with OP, so apologies. I think I was trying to say that everyone's perception of their labour is different, regardless of the medical fact.

sapat - while that does sound incredibly annoying, it's probably just that lady's way of dealing with her own drama.

Oxytocin is a very interesting hormone, not just in childbirth but in other stress situations - it's also sometimes called the "social" hormone as it's the one that guides us to want interactions with others. When I witnessed very closely a car accident (car hit a schoolgirl crossing the road), I went into shock - but one of the bizarre things that happened was my need to phone people up and tell them about it. I couldn't understand the need for it until many years later when I read about oxytocin in the stress response. So chances are, that's what was driving the annoying lady - but of course she could have just been an attention-seeking drama queen as well!

The oxytocin thing is very true. I saw this the other day,

I think that's another reason why being left alone for such a long period of time was quite damaging - I needed touch, and I needed comfort and reassurance and I got none of them (I don't think a 2-hours old DS counts!)

Being left alone is not bad per se - but when baby is not dressed, you cannot reach anything (including call button) and you have no way of getting help if you need it, is quite stressful. I kept worrying about what if I needed the loo - but it later transpired I had a catheter in (I had no idea ha) - which at least mitigated against that!

In the culture we have, of naughty steps, of withdrawing contact from people if they've done something wrong etc, being left alone felt like a punishment. (I realise that's my own interpretation)

That's a great talk, isn't it Cultural! I loved it the first time I saw it, she's very clever!

I don't think he needs to thank you for giving birth to be fair, it's not something which demands praise.

However if you tell him he is a good parent fairly regularly and he never returns the compliment, then that's a bit off. The way he deals with his emotions sounds like he might have a problem expressing himself, which could be down to various reasons. Is it possible he could have some issues which stop him from doing so?

Big hugs to you Cultural bear.

You need to love yourself.

A couple of other people have suggested counselling. Communication between you and DH sounds as though it needs help. Have you considered RELATE? You could sell it to DH as something you need to help you get over the trauma of birth. I may be out of line suggesting this but you might be suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome as your birthing experience sounds very traumatic. Maybe DH has a touch of this too.
Men often deal with upset with denial. It would be good for both of you and your child (not good if parents not happy and end up divorced due to pent up/festering resentment) to talk about how you feel.

If Relate/couples counselling a no go, you need it for you. Talk to your GP. Let us know how you get on. You are a heroine (or hero if you prefer).

More hugs.

Yeah... he has issues. He's done well for himself in life because he's been able to rewrite the codes he was brought up with - but it also shuts out good things, too. It's sad. But he doesn't want to change - I can see why not, if you think your model of coping works, then why would you risk everything by changing it?

It's a good idea to ask him to do the couples counselling for me... I'm not sure it will work - he was resistant to antenatal classes, let alone somewhere he would be expected to communicate and be vulnerable - but I can't be sure until I try.

I'm not sure about PTSD - I do get the odd flashback, and the opening credits to OBEM or any programme where there is a woman screaming in labour brings me out in a panic - but I don't get the nightmares anymore.

I'll look into getting some holiday time so I can find a GP appt and see what happens.

Really appreciate the support on here - I never expected this. Thanks.

Just to say that I had massive hang ups with how my mum treated me while I was PG. She was horrible and I had no-one else to turn to. I'll never get those months back and now that DS is 6, I don't think I'll ever have any more children. I still get really upset about it, but telling her about my feelings and letting her know that I'll never be able to forgive her - and hearing her say sorry and telling me that she knows she should have acted differently - it did help me to get over it (as much as I'm going to anyway).

I can never turn back the clock and make my pregnancy a happy time - the same way that you can never turn back the clock and enjoy a good labour.

With labour, there are so many feelings that we don't experience unless we're in labour. The few times that I've had period pains since having DS, it's made me feel sick with the memories of labour pains - similarly (TMI) heavy bleeding on my period gives me that wobbly "urgh, my waters have broken" panicky feeling, which also makes me feel nauseous.

I hope the counselling works for you and DP and I hope that this hasn't put you off having more children if that's what you'd planned before.

If we could control births, they would be smooth, no tearing, and no emergency procedures. We can't. Women that have smooth births didn't do a "good job", they got lucky. (I don't mean they didn't do a good job pushing and all that, I mean they didn't do a good job making their birth smooth because they have no control over that).

My birth went smooth. I'd say I did a good job sticking with it, not losing motivation after 3 hours of pushing, and following the midwives instructions. But I wasn't responsible for a smooth birth. That was all down to contractions, size of the baby, and how she was positioned at the time.

You gave birth! You had a healthy boy! You did an excellent job! :)

And tell your DP you need his support, even if you have to give him a script. Chances are, he's probably never even given the birth a second thought. He needs to be there for you.

The thing that's screaming out to me skimming this thread is the appalling level of care you received afterwards. Have you ever had any sort of apology from the unit that left you alone, disorientated and incapable for four hours?

AlpacaLypse - when I had my debrief last December, I asked what was usual aftercare on recovery. They said: tea and toast, shower/bath, midwife and dad (if he's ok) dress and nappy baby, crib provided, call button provided, stuff explained etc.

I then explained what happened and she said - oh that shouldn't have happened. It must have been busy and they forgot about you. Sorry about that.

I also asked - was DP asked to look after me/us? (Something one of the midwives on duty - who was very busy with preemie twins on the other side of the curtain - said something that implied he was supposed to be caring for us) And the supervisor again said no.

It's crossed my mind to complain, but I know it happened because they were so busy and they just forgot about me. I don't think a complaint would be productive. It's also getting late for a complaint I think.

If you're still so obviously traumatised by the experience a year on - then my opinion would be no, it is not too late.

cultural it is never too late. Your complaint might force a review of procedures...and at the very least it will stop them being able to claim they get no complaints about their maternity care....

I've skipped over some of this thread, it's a little bit hard for me to read. I had a similar sort of birth with DS. Induction followed by forceps. But then DS had some issues so they took him away from me into another room to resuscitate him and then down to NICU. I got to see him for about 10 seconds from across the room and that was only because I pleaded with them to let me see him before taking me out of theatre. Then I didn't get to go down and visit him until around 4 hours later (again involving much pleading and the theft of a wheelchair).

I had a couple of counselling sessions and the thing that really struck a cord with me from that was this:

I was grieving. Grieving for the birth I'd planned and wanted, for the loss of that precious time. I was sad for myself, for DH and for DS that things had been so hard. Guilty that my body had let us down, had failed to do the job it was meant to for my precious child and angry mostly with myself but also with the hospital for taking DS away from me and leaving me frightened and alone (with DH) with only the terrifying information that there was 'something wrong with his arms'.

Understanding that grief, the reasons I felt like that and that it was ok to feel that way really helped me. I will always have a little bit of sadness about his birth but over time the guilt and anger have faded and I can look at it more objectively and know that everyone (me included) did their best at the time.

I think I probably apologised to DH at some point too for letting him down. Although I of course didn't really let anyone down and he never felt like I had.

I hope you're doing ok OP and please know that you have no reason to apologise to anyone but plenty of reason to be kind to and forgive yourself.

((hugs))

(I should add DS is now a gorgeous troublesome toddler - with perfect arms!)

I agree that it's never too late to complain - I also think that some sort of trauma counselling would benefit you. The nightmares may have stopped but you're still getting flashbacks and you're not quite in the right place yet, or you wouldn't even be considering apologising to your DH - you are, in my opinion, looking for things to still "make you feel better" (and possibly him) and have come up with this idea because you think it will somehow make him feel better, so that he will then reciprocate.

1. he isn't going to reciprocate, whatever you do
2. you need to feel better but you almost certainly need some form of counselling to show you the way
3. complaining via PALS may actually be cathartic for you - it often is, just having your voice "heard" properly can give you back some feeling of taking back control.

I'd like to add to the voices encouraging you to get counselling. The birth of my daughter haunted me for six years (rapid two hour labour, failed ventouse, failed forceps, no pain relief until emergency c, post natal depression including self harm). I thought the whole thing was completely my fault because I was told in labour by a midwife I wasn't trying hard enough, felt I wasn't valued enough to give pain relief, despite my severe distress and agitation being noted several times by several attending medical professionals. I felt terribly guilty about my marriage crumbling because I blamed myself for not coping with the labour and subsequent challenges.

It took me six years and two trips to my GP to be able to get the words out and verbalise my trauma and depression - at the first appointment I couldn't speak of it and made up some other reason for being there! Also, one of the reasons I had not sought help earlier was because I didn't feel comfortable disclosing to the GPs I had at the time - they felt abrupt and dismissive in their manner so I didn't even try to talk to them. It took me three different doctors to find the wonderful one I have now, who I can talk to and she properly listens, takes me seriously and has referred me as appropriate.

Now, I have been going to counselling for the past seven months - and it is making the world of difference to how I feel, behave, treat myself and my daughter. The perspective that a counsellor can provide is so valuable and is completely transforming my whole mind set. I needed that perspective from an outside person. You can't recover from birth trauma alone and perhaps not even from resources within your marriage. The outside perspective I'm getting is making me see my husband and marriage in a different light as well as coming to terms with the birth trauma. 'Birth Trauma' by Kim Thomas might be worth a read.

This may sound harsh/strange but I don't think you're being honest with yourself. I don't think you feel you need your DH's forgiveness. I think you're massively (rightfully) angry with him for his crapness as a birth partner, and his continuing everyday unkindness. Ditto you're angry about the crap consultant and aftercare. You should be.

Stop framing this is as 'I feel guilty and need forgiveness'. If he did 'forgive' you wouldn't feel any better. You want HIM to ask your forgiveness. And so you fucking should. Stop turning your anger in on yourself - its self-defeating.