To ask DP to forgive me for DS's birth?

[CulturalBear]

Have posted a few times about moderately crap DS birth.

Nutshell - waters broke, on drip 40 hours later, needed forceps/episiotomy, later abandoned on recovery ward (with naked baby) by hospital staff and DP for 4-5hours. DS largely fine, I was largely fine.

A year and a bit on, and it still bothers me.

Someone IRL recently told me the usual 'all that matters' is that DS is fine and I need to let it go - and asked what I needed to do that.

It occurred to me around DS's first birthday that I need DP to forgive me. He has never given me any praise or credit around the birth or year since - never said well done or that he's proud of me, or that I'm a good mum or even thank you for the things I do - all normal things a dad might say to his partner.

He is basically Spock when it comes to feelings - he logics the shit out of them so they don't trouble him.

But I believe that him not saying these things implies he feels ashamed of me. I think that if I could get him to express forgiveness for screwing up or letting him/DS down, then I might be able to let go this over-riding sense of failure I've had since.

For the record, I 100% do not judge the way that anyone else gives birth - it's bloody hard work and requires a huge amount of effort however it happens - I just wish I, personally, had done better. I have never been given a reason for needing the interventions other than 'he was a bit stuck'.

Ideally DS would tell me he forgives me - but I'm not sure I could wait 18+ years!

Would I be unreasonable to ask DP to forgive me? If not, how do I go about it?

Your husband "gets away with" not having counselling - well no, his life is less happy than it could be if he had it.
As well as NHS/private there are charities that offer subsidised counselling - not in England so can't say which ones near you.

What an arse your consultant was, of course you can't feel to push with a full spinal. I had both an epi then a spinal and its a total block, like you I had to guess at pushing had no idea what I was doing!

My dd was born with ventouse but that was because she was lower down, not because I pushed harder. Any higher and it would have been forceps or CS.

Have you a birth afterthoughts service? Or could you see an independent midwife? I felt very low after the birth of DD feeling like I failed her because I could not get her out (she was back to back, had to be turned manually, ventouse, then shoulder dystocia). Just one session with her turned around my thinking totally, she made me feel proud of what I had achieved. If you are in London, I can highly recommend them (Neighbourhood midwives) or try the Birth Crisis line?

It's difficult if you are 'hanging on' to risk letting go and letting all the bad stuff come up to the surface, because you worry that you won't be able to squash it all back down again.

But the important thing about talking things through is that it should be a chance to 'look at' the way you feel, and deal with the issues around it. Then it won't be a huge big tangle of emotions any more, and you'll be able to deal with things bit by bit.

At the moment, the whole iceberg is threatening to pop up and engulf you, and you feel you have to keep it all down, even though bits of it keep surfacing. What a good counseller ought to help you do is get a feel of the outline of the iceberg, then start dealing with it a little at a time, without you having to drown first!

My dh has never, in 12 years of parenthood, thanked me for birthing our girls, or for being a great mum.

Do men really do that kind of thing?

Acolyte does he also refuse to apologize if he treads on your toes?

The OP just wants some compassion, your post comes across as quite snide.

Acolyte - in our (for that, read DP's) circle of friends, they openly talk about how amazing their wives etc were giving birth. One that just gave birth had been promised a 'push present' (a pandora charm) - a gift from their daughter as a thank you for carrying and delivering her.

Other dads take to Facebook etc to say how amazing their partner was, how proud they are etc.

If not at the time of birth, they will use Mother's Day etc.

I'm not necessarily asking for some public display, even a private word would make a big difference.

The baby's head almost certainly got stuck solely because it was in the wrong position, which is nothing whatsoever to do with you. My ds was occipito posterior - i.e. as I understand it, with the back of his head towards my back and flexed. That would mean that pushing wouldn't really help as it would just flex more, so I had forceps. And DS has been absolutely fine. It really is nothing at all to do with anything that you did or did not do.

cultural I forgive you too!

The thing is that it was shit. Horrible and shit and not at all what I wanted it to be...what it should have been.

Because of it, I was ill and incapacitated, and couldn't give DD that start she deserved...DH had to take over as main parent and then I got PND and...and...and...

it just goes on. A massive wheel of guilt and pain.

My DD is now 3 and she is happy and I recently properly realised that she loves me. (I saw a photo of me and here and she is looking up at me like I am her anchor in the world - and I cried for like 2 hours).

I don't really know why I am writing this except to let you know that it is okay to hate what happened to you and to hate the results of it and to wish it hadn't happened. It's okay to fear being made vulnerable in a way you didn't know could happen until you gave birth. It's okay to find it hard to recover from such a horrible shock to your system.

Childbirth might be a transient process but being pregnant and giving birth changes you permanently. One example is tolerance to caffeine being 3 times higher in any woman who has carried a baby than it is in women that haven't.
So I guess the most important message is that it DOES fade. It does stop making as much difference to your life, but it may take a while.....

Just another post to add that I think you are amazing. I think that anyone who has gotten a child out of their body is awesome. I don't care how either - assisted, no drugs, whatever. All equally amazing.

Don't reduce your pregnancy to one thing - you grew your DS and you are parenting very well despite the deficit of a shitty birth experience to recover from.

I, stranger on the internet, am proud of you.

OP, I would like to give you the world's biggest, most loving hug.

Nothing you've written about is "your fault", and whilst I think there's a logical part of you that knows that, truly feeling it will most likely take some work, i.e. counselling.

Your "d"p sounds very cold. Is he generally like that? I know you mentioned the standing on your foot example. Have you tried talking to him and explaining that you - as do many people - need some verbal reassurance and displays of kindness from time to time?

Your medical care during and after the birth sounds atrocious by the way. When you feel up to it, do consider complaining about the way you were treated.

AMumInScotland - that sums it up perfectly. If I let the cracks show, they're going to tear me apart.

I always thought that depression had to be bad enough to stop you living to warrant getting help. I'm hanging on at the moment.

I don't think it is the saying thank you or getting a present that is the important part. It is having the acknowledgement of what happened and its long term effects.

I have had many discussions with my DH about what happened. How horrible it felt, how panicky I had been, how much pain there was how frightened I was. All I needed from him was that he acknowledge the truth of it and give me a big hug.

I have also listened to his story, how terrified he was, how angry he got with the doctors, how he sat for and hour talking to me while the GA was wearing off and though I hated him because I wasn't answering (I was actually still partially unconscious). And I acknowledged the truth of his experience and gave him a massive hug.

I think that is what the OP needs. To be able to tell her DH an honest account of how the whole thing has made her feel and have him just hear it....

I think you may both be a bit depressed, sometimes the birth and early months are just not what you expect when you're pg and beside yourself with excitement - birth is the start of the wake up call, or it was for me. Probably you're taking it lit on each other because you are close, dh and I said awful (and not meant) things to each other in the early days. I do think you should say something to dh about feeling he's not proud of you - you don't have to be good with words to at least say that and my dh did, but not for months after, he didn't realise it mattered to me.

Depression is affecting your life, because of the effort it is taking to hold yourself together. That's enough to go and ask for help.
If you had an unexpected pain, you'd go to the GP before you reached a point where you were curled up on the floor unable to do anything. If you had a rash, you'd go along before it covered your whole body in sores. Your feelings deserve the same attention as your body. They are causing you pain, and it isn't something that you can just ignore for a few days till it gets better on its own.

If anyone doesn't think childbirth is a feminist issue-read this thread!

Having had PND and that PND being left Untreated thanks to useless GP and HV, I can promise you that
1- it's not because you are sort of functioning that you aren't depressed
2- PND does stop you from enjoying your baby
And 3- it's much better to get help and ads before you've reached crisis point.
Seriously go and get some support. Whether it's ads or counselling or both.

And maybe instead of saying to the GP 'I'm a bit sad but in still ok' you could him/her what you've said on this thread ie you are feeling deeply guilty about the birth, it was traumatic. You are finding you can sort of cope with daily activities but just. And not enough to be able to cope with the unexpected such as looking after a toddler for the day if they are slightly unwell.

Finally if you go down the route of counselling, it will be for yourself. Your DH 'won't be getting away with it' he will be missing a huge opportunity to deal with something traumatic and learn to enjoy life again. Not quite the same.

I had terrible pnd, flashbacks, cold sweats and an ability to bond with my son after a terrible labour. I felt let down and angry. I did nothing about it until I got pregnant accidentally with number two. I was referred for perinatal counselling straight away after I had a major meltdown and received counselling throughout the pregnancy.....it changed my life. By the time my second was born, I was desperate to meet him. I should have done it earlier. I was never a big believer in talki g therapies....but they can transform how you feel. Please get help.

"I can't very well walk into a GP and say. Um hi. I'm a bit sad about how my DS was born. But I'm coping ok. They'll tut me out of the office for wasting their time lol."

Not true OP. I finally did something about my birth trauma recently and this is after two and a half years. My GP was lovely and has started the referral process.

You need to allow yourself to be kind to yourself. X

I had pnd for 2 bloody years it didnt manifest until dd was over a year old but I was functioning most people do.
I used to have fears somebody was going to report me to ss I also had terrible dark thoughts yet I got up took care of dd went out did things etc etc
. Depression doesnt mean you are unable to do anything and pnd is different from one woman to the next I honestly think you need to see somebody im not saying you have pnd but your thought process about this is skewed .

The terrible fear about being reported to SS if i admitted my PND was what really hindered me too, Mrsjayy. I was paranoid about someone taking my baby away if I reached out for help. I realise now how silly that was- I think basically the first 3 years of Ds's life was blighted for me by that.

I'm getting tearful reading this and now wondering if I need more help dealing with my own experience.

Hugs to you OP, I hope you'll get the help you need. I think OBEM et al have a lot to answer for. But I wonder if assisted births aren't filmed much because they're likely not to be good 'tv material'. I've noticed there aren't many first babies featured, maybe that's why x

OBEM et al have a lot to answer for

I agree. I can't recall ever seeing someone pushing for three hours, then having a ventouse and episotomy.
Nor can I recall the midwife snapping a cannular needle in the back of anyone's hand, missing a retained placenta and the patient then becoming seriously ill. Hey ho, maybe its just me!

I think the reason why they don't get shown is because imagine if you'd been filmed, then afterwards it turned out to be a traumatic experience. How many women do you think would then sign the release form for the footage to be used?

Exactly showtunes however I think all delivery suites should have cameras (not for broadcast obviously, just for the record), then the professionals might think more carefully about how they treat women in childbirth.