To ask DP to forgive me for DS's birth?

[CulturalBear]

Have posted a few times about moderately crap DS birth.

Nutshell - waters broke, on drip 40 hours later, needed forceps/episiotomy, later abandoned on recovery ward (with naked baby) by hospital staff and DP for 4-5hours. DS largely fine, I was largely fine.

A year and a bit on, and it still bothers me.

Someone IRL recently told me the usual 'all that matters' is that DS is fine and I need to let it go - and asked what I needed to do that.

It occurred to me around DS's first birthday that I need DP to forgive me. He has never given me any praise or credit around the birth or year since - never said well done or that he's proud of me, or that I'm a good mum or even thank you for the things I do - all normal things a dad might say to his partner.

He is basically Spock when it comes to feelings - he logics the shit out of them so they don't trouble him.

But I believe that him not saying these things implies he feels ashamed of me. I think that if I could get him to express forgiveness for screwing up or letting him/DS down, then I might be able to let go this over-riding sense of failure I've had since.

For the record, I 100% do not judge the way that anyone else gives birth - it's bloody hard work and requires a huge amount of effort however it happens - I just wish I, personally, had done better. I have never been given a reason for needing the interventions other than 'he was a bit stuck'.

Ideally DS would tell me he forgives me - but I'm not sure I could wait 18+ years!

Would I be unreasonable to ask DP to forgive me? If not, how do I go about it?

Btw to any professionals reading, I realise most of you are brilliant, but three out of the ten or so people I had with me could have done much much better, I actually felt bad for the other staff who were most likely mortified at what they witnessed.

Apologies for the slight derailing OP.

And please believe me when I tell you the marks will go.
I had my DD via C-section and she had a mark on her forehead for months. (That was an Emergency c-section after 50+ hours of labour and I don't feel any guilt at all and neither should you)
It faded but still came back every time she got angry or really tearful.
It didn't completely stop doing this until she was about 5 years old.
But at 16, she beautiful and blemish free!
Don't worry about that, I will go eventually.

I've nothing to add to the other advice. Get a good GP and tell them what's happening and don't ever believe that you should feel any guilt for what you went through.
And certainly don't apologise to your DH other than to say 'I'm sorry you're an arse and totally lacking in emotions'

I'm glad the penny is dropping for you. All these lovely MNers can't be wrong!

OP any chance you could say to your husband

"It may not be in your nature [of course it bloody well should be] but please understand that I need you to say you were proud of me, that I did my best, that I did everything I could for our child during labour."

And if he won't, he's a twat.

Maybe he doesn't get it, but if it's pointed out to him that you need this and he won't, then he's being callous.

Acolyte

My husband thanks me most weeks. As I do him.

You say that your DH is not demonstrative and hasn't said certain things to you but you have said that is typical of his behaviour.

He probably assumes a lot of things like knowing that you're a good mother etc.

And when he has talked about the birth, are you sure you're not taking it the wrong way? When he says that the induction took too long etc, this may not be slights on you but just stating facts of the situation?

Btw....do t. Worry so much about feeling vulnerable...we didnt discuss the experience itself until I'd had about fifteen sessions....a good perinatal counsellor is going to take things slowly. Really.

TBH it sounds as if you need to forgive yourself on some level. Needing reassurrance from dh is a separate issue. Can i recommend that you both read 5 love languages. I would bet my mortgage on one of your two primary languages being words of reassurrance. The theory goes, that we all show love in the way that we like to receive it, but that dp may not speak the same language as you. So you each need to learn to speak the other persons language. the 5 languages are words of readdurance, touch, acts of service, time together, and gifts. We tend to prefer 2 of them so i am acts of service and words, wheras dh is touch and time.

He seemed very annoyed by the inconvenience of it all tbh!

During the early stages he was fairly useful - stroked my leg for a while, distracted me with some word games etc. As things went on, he went into himself a bit (as did I).

I think he also expected things to be much quicker than they were. He has prior experiences of labour ward and when his first son was born (12 years ago) he was born within 5 hours.

He has never talked about the birth. I have asked him to tell me how he felt (in general terms) but he never says anything. So much so that at a wedding the other week there were a load of pg mates there. I was fascinated to hear what he had to say and it was just 'it'll be fine - as long as you don't faint like I did haha'.

The most information I ever had was when I asked him how he was treated by the staff, ie if they explained things etc, and he said that they had mostly ignored him and he didn't know what was going on some of the time.

That's really interesting redexpat - I would definitely agree with that. DP would, I'm sure, by acts of service and time. I try and bear this in mind by doing stuff for him where possible - but it's not easy when you have very limited time, and when he doesn't 'count' certain acts of service like changing 99% of dirty nappies and doing all the night wakings with the baby, for example.

Will look for the book. He won't read it though. He's not interested in changing himself at all.

A lot of time a traumatic birth can also be traumatic for the partner.
They are helpless and they just have to watch you suffer.
It can be very hard for them as well.
He may need some counselling as well to help him past this stage.
I hope you both get there and soon!

It seems to me that there are quite a few things that need to be dealt with here including your DH's lack of wanting to change and engage.

Indeed showtunesgirl - essentially his own mum did a total number on him but that's a different story. It's not an excuse, but it explains a huge amount of his behaviour.

Ha!

OP - you have had some really excellent advice here. Not sure I have much to add TBH. I, too, had a horrific birth. It was the polar opposite of what I had expected. I ended up with multiple serious birth injuries and have had to have a lot of medical treatment and surgery to recover.

I've been through the cycle of blaming myself - not for what happened on the labour ward, but for not doing enough research prior to the birth. It turns out that my body just can't get babies out properly and I have various health stuff going on that, if I had known, would have been a strong indication that a VB would have been a disaster and I should go for ELCS. I never needed forgiveness from, DH. Nor do I think I ever really needed for forgive myself as such. But I did need to absolve myself of the responsibility that it all going so spectactularly to shit was all my fault and no one else's.

I agree with other posters' suggestions that counselling may be a good idea. For some a debrief is enough. But others of us need a bit more. You may have an element of PND. It might also be PTSD - if you are more anxious, jumpy, hyper vigilent, constantly ruminating rather than being down and very low energy all the time, then that might point more towards PTSD than depression. Have a look at CBT. EMDR is also a specific trauma therapy that I have found every helpful.

One thing that your DH said that I picked up on. When you asked him about the birth one of the things he said was 'sometimes shit just happens'. He's right (obviously not excusing his lack of emotional and psychological support after the birth!). Believing that is so bloody hard and I railed against it for a long, long time. But accepting that shit just happens and that day it happened to you and that none of it was your fault might help you through this. It's hard though and some of us, me included, need some help to get to that point.

X

Cultural - I think you know (even if you don't feel) that you don't need forgiveness. I had a similar sort of birth with DS1 (without the induction but the end and the lengthiness were there) and there is nothing much you can do, honestly. Especially if it is your first child and you have no idea what is happening to your body, even if you have read everything there is to read before hand. That doesn't tell you how you will feel when it is all happening to you.

If anybody needs to ask forgiveness, it is the hospital. I don't think you were treated at all well, the consultant was uncaring with his comments and your DP was probably as traumatised by the whole thing as you were. The fainting shows that.

This comment *Counselling freaks me out though. I've been many years ago and I hate the way it makes me feel so vulnerable' and the general feelings you have expressed make me think you like being in control. By the sounds of it, your DP is the same. He wants to reduce everything to logic because he understands that and it makes it predictable. Your DS's birth wasn't within the control of either of you and you have both struggled with it. I think too that counselling might be your way forward and that you might have to accept the feelings of vulnerability in order to move on. If you don't you are burying the feelings too. You might find that if you are happier about things then your DP can relax a bit too, knowing that you are OK about it so, whilst not wanting to put responsibility for your DP on your shoulders, I think that it would be good for both of you in the end.

With regard to fact he never says he is proud of you, I think that is the other side of the coin to saying him not saying he forgives you. He has nothing to forgive because you did nothing wrong - you weren't in control of your body. Similarly, my take on the lack of pride is the same - you weren't in control so even if you had the 'perfect' birth, whatever that is, that isn't something to be proud of. Your body is in control, not you, the person. I think the thing to be proud of is your DS, the person you are creating. If your DP is a good dad and is proud of your DS then, for me anyway, that is enough. The gushing fathers on FB are sweet but isn't that just the euphoria of the birth which was spoilt by the hospital for you both? The real test of these men is how good they are as fathers and whether they step up and take responsibility.

It would be very unreasonable to ask him to forgive you :(

That's very on the money about control. I released a lot of the control beforehand as I realised the controllables were actually very few and far between.

But I hadn't realised I also had significant unspoken expectations of the way DP would respond to me. I knew it was unrealistic to expect/hope he might shed a tear - but I did hope he would be able to 'be present' and be there for me, and give me what I needed for once.

When that didn't come, I assumed it was because he was angry/upset/embarrassed by me. Surely even Spock would say 'I'm proud of the way you handled that' or even a little 'wow look what wonderful thing we made' or would take that special 'first mum' picture.

I feel I have to assume that I'm to blame because it would be unfair to criticise him, IYKWIM.

Sounds like you need to forgive him for being weak, unsupportive and a bit crap.

I think your need is perhaps expecting a little too much from him

My own DH used to a little cold in emotional situations where he too felt out of control. Over the years he's learnt how to behave and give me what I need but that was after many years of being extremely explicit as to what I expected from him.

Have you tried speaking to him about what you need specifically? The I rather than you usually comes across much better and less accusatory. Eg I need to hear that you are proud of me. Rather than: you should say you are proud of me.

If you did ask forgiveness wouldn't he just revert to Spock mode anyway?

Don't ask but do spell it out to him that you want some encouragement and warmth from him.

It's a huge leap from him not crying or being gushy - particularly if that's not "him" - to him being angry/upset/embarrassed by you. You're projecting a lot onto him. While the whole experience has obviously had a huge impact on you, it hasn't on him but you can't really blame him for taking it in his stride.

• you are not in control of your body when you give birth it does what it wants Not read thread but your body is an animal one, that does its own thing.

Your mind has very little to do with the whole process, you can hynobirth to help your mind cope with the contractions, but those contractions will still be there, coming, you can breathe deeply to help you, but the reason why your breathing deeply will still be there.

Babies get stuck, go back to back, there is very little we can actually do to change all of that ourselves....

Look at your body and ask your ancestors way back for forgiveness for forging together since year dot to produce your body....

Very few births go well or as planned - your in the majority not the minority.

I have very little confidence in my GP surgery - the (female) one I saw at my 8-week check was very dismissive of my feelings (physical and otherwise) and said it takes a year to get over childbirth. The really good one recently left to form a new practice too far away for me to reach - the rest are - or seem to be - non-permanent locums. I am considering switching but this one came recommended

I really really regret not going to see another GP after I was palmed off with newbie training when I had my first and had lots of issues emotionally after birth..

OP - as an ex midwife, I promise you that if you needed a forceps delivery, you really needed it. It is perfectly possible for any baby's head to get stuck. It can be due to position, not necessarily size. It was nothing you did, it wasn't your fault. the forceps were needed to turn your baby's head to the right position so he could come out.

Please - ask your GP for some counselling to help you to get through this.

So you say you don't judge how anyone gives birth, yet you clearly have judged yourself on how you gave birth. You have nothing and don't need to be forgiven by anyone, not DP or DS.

You do need to talk to your partner though and get him to acknowledge how his lack of understanding his feelings is impacting you.

OP, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to criticise him. He seems like he was very self-centred and detached around the birth, and is hardly Man of the Year otherwise.

Also, he is not bigging you up to people, or privately thanking you, because he thinks you did something wrong, he's not doing it because, as you point out, he's totally unemotional. You are expecting someone who never expresses big emotions or talks about feelings to have a complete personality change. I am totally on your side that you are rightfully upset that he has displayed no positivity to you about that, but it's not who he is.

I don't understand why you need there to be some blame in this situation. You are NOT to blame for anything. You had a crappy birth experience, which had zero to do with anything you did wrong, or have wrong with you. It's got nothing to do with choices you made or didn't make, or any inferiority with your body, as you have implied here - it was just one of those things. It's crap, isn't it? But there's no blame involved. In fact, it sounds like you did amazingly well and coped amazing well afterwards, all things considered.

Why can't you be proud of yourself? Why do you feel that you have done something wrong and have failed, without external validation?

It's easier to blame someone or something than accept that crap things just happen, and there's no rhyme or reason to it all, isn't it? So much easier to try to feel some sort of control on the situation by apportioning blame. And we are taught as women that we're always at fault somehow, so it comes all too easy to think we're to blame somehow in situations where there is no blame.