To (usually) maintain normal bedtimes during the holidays and be annoyed that friend turned up for impromptu playdate at 7.45pm?

[plentyofpipecleaners]

DC are 7 & 5. Normal bedtime is 7.30pm. DS1 reads for anything up to 90 minutes after we have gone downstairs, ds2 tends to be asleep a lot earlier then that. Since the light nights, and especially since it has been so hot and sticky, they have been noisier after bedtime, with lots of toing and froing between the two rooms. However, we/I (h partly moved out now) tend to ignore this as long as not too rowdy - dc do not seem over-tired and the focus is on them during the day, so evenings are precious. We usually go camping (is booked this year, and the plan is to go ahead, despite separation ) and bedtimes go out the window then, but otherwise, unless there is a special reason, we stick to them and dc are fine with it, I think.

Tonight a friend, as planned, came round at 7.30 to drop off a pet I am looking after for them while they are away. They had brought their dc - the same ages as ours. They were shocked to find ours in bed and the mother, in particular, made several comments about how she expected ours to be up since it is the holidays. Tbh, even if they had been up, I would not have wanted them getting hyped up at that time in the evening, no way. Both parents were there, so AIBU to think that one could have stayed at home with the dc, or that they could at least have checked before bringing the dc round?

They spent a really awkward hour here, constantly 'shhing' their dc with pointed comments about ours being in bed etc, so that I ended up feeling embarrassed for my dc - like I have shown them up in front of their friends. They were still awake, of course, and when I went up afterwards, they were in one bed giggling about why their friends had come round 'at night'. I wonder why they just didn't come down, but they didn't.

As a side issue, am I the only parent who tries to maintain normality during the holidays - ds1, in particular, is noticeably 'older' this year then last, iyswim.

I think its cruel to put children to bed so early in summer holidays

Cruel?!?! Well that made LOL. You must be living on another planet if making provision for children to get a good nights sleep is "cruel".

I'm surprised how the original question from the OP is bringing so much judgement about whether it's ok to keep some sort of routine during the home or not.

Seriously we all have our own ways of doing things, and there is no reason why one should be better and the right thing to do whereas the other options are crap.
Ime the best way to do thing is the one that works for your family.

Eg my older child will wake up between 6.00 and 6.30am regardless if the time he goes to bed. He is 11yo. If I let go to bed at 9.30pm every night he ends up knackered after a week. Now seeing that he us exhausted after the end if the school year, is that such a good idea?
Or dc2 who was a very light sleeper when he was 5~7yo. He would have slept after 6.30am but was woken up by the slightest noise so DH getting up to go to work would have been enough. Cue again for an exhausted child.

As far as I am concerned, of you are visiting friends, esp if you come round to ask for a service!, I would just accept that have a different way if doing things and wouldn't have dreamt to stay anymore than just necessary. Ie I would have dropped the pet and be gone in 5 mins rather than staying for an hour. I wouldn't have wanted to disturb anyone and round have assumed that the dcs needed sleep.

still the OP explained that she was expecting things to go ahead as usual, ie one if them to bring the pet and then for him/her to go away. She wasn't expecting them to come round as a whole family. Otherwise she might have decided of another time it kept the dcs up.

Yes, we have had this pet arrangement for the last 5 years or so and looked after it a couple of times a year in that time. Always one of the parents drops it off after bedtime, so by doing this, imo, they were changing long-standing agreement without checking first. I suppose they are allowing their dc a later bedtime this year, but why not check first that we are doing the same?

Also, no, she didn't insist my children got up, but I had to sit and watch hers play for an hour! Who wants to do that in the evening?!

oh fair enough. It is a total pain when someone assumes no one has to get up if you do .

Some of the comments on here are crazy IMO. Some children need more sleep than others, my 6 YO is shattered by 730/8pm, just because it is the school holidays that doesn't change, also like others they sometimes have to go to holiday club etc so still need to be up by 730.

We of course are more flexible as they don't need to concentrate like they do at school but we like our grown up time too. How is it cruel to put the children in bed at a reasonable time.

They are often playing outside till 7ish but then they come in have a quick shower, watch some tv and go to bed at 8ish, my 8 YO will stay up longer but not outside, he will chill out and watch tv or read.

I think its cruel to put children to bed so early in summer holidays

Lmao. (Sorry for lolling but I just did! Cruel. Jesus, get a big grip and grab hold.
Do you have kids? They're not all identikit you know, they actually have their own personalities and needs -you can't lump them all together to say they all are the same and should stay up!
My 7 year old is fairly flexible, and if he has the odd late night he's fine the next day.
10 year old on the other hand, if you deviate too far from his bedtime he is the nightmare demon child from hell the next day.
Doesn't help that whatever time you put mine to bed, they ALWAYS get up insanely early (5.30 some mornings, 6am most.)
So if they go later too often they'd be absolute wrecks the next day and making everybody miserable not to mention themselves.
So where the hell fun is that just because they 'should' be up as it's the holidays?!
Not much point if it means they're not functioning well enough to do anything the next day!

Tbh it's a bit like adults saying they can't possibly go to bed before 10.00pm as it's soooo early Even though they are falling asleep in the sofa by 8.39~9.00pm.

Having strict ideas on when to go to bed regardless of the person herself is just crazy IMO.

Same as saying 'oh it's so hot it's impossible to get to sleep anyway'. Some people find it harder, others don't. Dc1 will just go and have a colder shower to cool down

Some posters seem to imagine that us early-bed-even-in-summer-holidays people are forcing our kids to bed, when they're begging to stay up late. Even putting aside my adult point of view (early starts, meltdown the next day, my need for adult time etc), my children are tired at their usual bed time, and they want to go to bed. And as for saying it's cruel to put kids to bed early in summer - surely it would be more cruel for me to force my children to stay up late when they are falling asleep?

Of course different children and different households are different. DD1's south facing room is far warmer than DD2's for example.

But I still maintain an awful lot of parents are petrified of varying their routine and look for every tiny sign their precious darling might be tired the next day.

They run scared that their DC might tell someone that they went to bed at 9pm or someone might see their DCs enjoying themselves. It's as if there is some Great British Bed Time Conspiracy.

Relax, chill, live a little dangerously and you might find your PFB/PSB are much more flexible than you imagine. Go on try it, next holiday or big family event you'll be glad you did!

elephants I don't think I've ever seen such a patronising and arrogant post! Words fail me.

"But I still maintain an awful lot of parents are petrified of varying their routine and look for every tiny sign their precious darling might be tired the next day.

"They run scared that their DC might tell someone that they went to bed at 9pm or someone might see their DCs enjoying themselves. It's as if there is some Great British Bed Time Conspiracy."

Such sarcasm is unnecessary, Elephants. Neither of my two are that subtle. No need to look for signs. They tell me loud and clear that they're tired. No running scared, but DS1 in full meltdown isn't for the faint hearted.

Both 8 and 10yo go to bed when they're properly tired in the evening. Usually between 8 and 9pm. They never got the internal message about daylight savings, so sometimes we have to actively try to keep 8yo DS2 awake until 8pm, in winter, after a busy day at school, in the hope that he'll stay asleep until the reasonable hour of 5am.

I still don't get it- everyone is going on about avoiding children being tired etc, keeping to routines. But the Op's children didn't go to sleep anyway, as there were guests and a new pet downstairs! It is far from clear they didn't venture down as they were happy upstairs, it's more likely they knew if they came down, they would be treated to the sad disappointed face my mum would use if we stepped out of line and attempted to get out of bed after 6.30pm even though it was completely light outside and we weren't remotely sleepy. They knew they wouldn't be welcomed downstairs and the rules bent, so they stayed upstairs, awake, not getting any sleep or sticking to the routine anyway.

I completely agree with Elephants routines have a place, especially in school time or if you are up with the lark for holiday club. These children weren't, and they could easily have had a little play with their friends and still been in bed for 8.30/9pm, hardly staying up til midnight really!

It is not a big deal though, either way.

and I know I will have the last laugh when the flight is delayed and it is your DC who is screaming the place down and you who are killing embarrassed.

Or when I'm in enjoying the company of family and friends at a wedding and your sitting pissed of MN in a darkened hotel room scared even to breath too loudly!

Feeling embarrassed and the whole room is staring at you.

Mine are older but similar to others, they have to get up to go to Out of school care most days in the holidays so can't let them be up too late. A bit difficult now that they are teenagers and on-line with their friends - i shout them off to get supper and bed at 10ish but sure their friends are probably on line until the early hours and then sleep all morning.

Even if they have been up late and can sleep in as long as they want, the latest my two get up is 8.30ish.

Don't get this. People relax bedtimes for six weeks?! I get doing so whilst actually on holiday, Spain, or whatever, but just because the kids are home? Very weird. They stop being tired at bedtime randomly for august? I get a few more nights might be later but to do so as a matter of course seems rather ridiculous.

You really don't get other people, do you, Elephants?

I think we've crossed paths on this topic before, and you were equally rude and scathing, then.

If we're going to go down the snidey judgemental comments, route, since that's what you're up for, I'm often when neighbours are having one of their sitting around drinking sessions and their child is whining and wailing at 10pm, because they should bloody well be in bed and then whining and wailing the next morning because they should bloody well have gone to bed earlier. Where's the fun in that?

Some kids need their sleep. Some are a little more adaptable. Generally, parents respond to their kids needs. Go ahead and party all evening with your children, but do try not to be so rude to others about their choices for their families. There's a dear.

Like most parents bedtimes are a reflection of the child's personality and capability and home circumstance. DD is fairly flexible but the first half of the school holidays she will be at day camp, which means we have to leave home an hour earlier than we would normally for school. I am also a single parent and if DD went to bed later, I would have less time to do all the things I need to do which would take longer with a 7 year old constantly buzzing around.

Some of you need to get a grip, I must have missed the part of the Geneva Convention that states going to bed at the usual time during the school holidays is a human rights violation.

I work FT (well almost) and so does DH. My 1 year old twins were still gambolling about in the garden at 7pm last night! We were delighted with ourselves - sat on the sofa with a glass of wine. Finally in bed at 7.45 and not asleep until 8.30ish. (thankfully they sort themselves out and we do a throw in cot and run routine!)

I can't wait until they are old enough to go out for a late dinner in the summer and then bumble about thereafter. Not every night but now and again it's lovely to slow down and enjoy the early evening without the hussle and bustle of having to do things to schedule.

Elephants Having a routine most nights does not mean that children cannot be flexible when we want them to be.

Both my DCs have had a bed time routine since they were tiny which works for us but we have also done many long haul flights where they have been up at 4am then to bed many many hours later, had lots of holidays where they are up till midnight etc and they have been perfectly well behaved however I cannot see why for almost 7 weeks they need to stay up late every single day just because it's summer.

Don't get this. People relax bedtimes for six weeks?!

I am suggesting the opposite, that the OP could have relaxed a little on this one occasion, as guests came and the children were awake and haven't been going to sleep at 7.30 anyway in the hot weather.

She could have had a fun hour of chatting and playing and generally enjoying herself, she had a tense hour of resentment that her friends had brought round their children.

I think that is pretty rigid, and most of the people on here who have talked about routines have actually stated their children go to bed later than the Op's children, or are a bit more flexible anyway, so the similarities don't seem to me to be so great.

Napolean, you are making an awful lot of assumptions, especially in your last but one post. As I have already said, had they come down I would have gone with it - I would not have greeted them with the PA, disappointed face you describe. I don't know whether they knew that, of course, but they don't shrink from challenging me at other times, so I am inclined to think that had they wanted to come down, they would have. As I said, they were chatting and giggling together when I went up, not cowering in fear, devastated that they had missed out. And there was no excitement about the pet. It is a very passive, cage-bound animal that provides little to no entertainment and, as I've said, we have looked after it several times, so no novelty. Ds2 enjoys helping me feed it; ds1 never glances at it the whole time it's here.

As for your last post, I really do find it extremely patronising. I'm not a spontaneous person - I can't help it, I'm just not, and the pressure I'm under lately is not helping. Is it really so terrible to want some notice if people are going to drop round wanting dc to play later than ever done before? And I have already stated that bedtimes are not draconian here. Especially in the holidays, the dc are often up for an extra half-hour or so. When we are away, they go to bed when we do - 10-11ish.

I went downstairs, having put the children to bed, and found, not the one person I was expecting, but 4 people, 2 of whom were expecting to play. I am clearly a right miserable bitch because I didn't find it easy to flip a switch and relax in those circumstances.

And, as I've said, my dc seldom play together anymore, but they do on the occasions they go in and out of each others rooms for 30 minutes or so after bedtime. I believe they enjoy it, and ds1 enjoys reading up there. We are not the joyless household you seem determined to paint us.

other's

I'm amazed at the judgement OP is getting. She's going through a marital separation, and has 2 young children, so she's probably got plenty on her plate. She was hoping for a relaxing evening and some peace, after the annual pet drop-off had occurred. Her children were quite happily in bed, amusing themselves, and not showing any signs of discontent.

Yet her friend pitches up with pet and family in tow, and OP is supposed to crack open a bottle of wine, shout "woo hoo party!", get her kids out of bed, and have a late night which she will no doubt pay for the next day.

I think a bit of empathy and consideration of other poeple's situations wouldn't go amiss here.