IABU to ask you to guess my pay from my job description?

[upyourninja]

If I describe my job, could you tell me what you think my pay might be/what would be fair remuneration?

Highly specialised role within a not-for-profit sector
Most jobs in London/south of UK, so had to relocate to get into the industry
Required to travel overseas 4-6 times per year
Manage a small team, which is the department for the whole company
Present our product to international clients; most of our business is in Asia
High level of expertise and 8 years of experience in the industry
Take part in several senior committees within the company
Daily international meetings via conference
Originate, authorise, and sign contracts
Report on trends, achieve a set target revenue (increasing every year despite a difficult market)

High academic qualifications are required and many colleagues are Oxbridge/Ivy League educated.

And... out of curiosity, what is your profession and do you feel adequately compensated for your time?

[missbishi]

What you get and what you are worth are two very different things. I work for free so what does that say about me (smiley face)

The fact you work for free says you are priceless!

[JaneParker]

Women can be worse than men at negotiating pay. Both my daughters (lawyers) (20s) have managed to get good pay rises in London this year. One read Lean In and she has raised the issue with her boss, provided comparisons with others who are similar in other companies in her area, pushed for it and just got her second pay rise in a year. No one else around her is doing that - they just wait for the annual increase. The second one ( just got up to £104k including bonus, but she does work very hard so that's her effort I am sure - i only mention the figurr to encourage others and because it's recent and she has done very well) says she asks about pay more than other colleagues and it seems to have paid off - this is the first time (at her stage of qualification) people at the same level are paid differently and she is £20k more than her friend at the same stage but I suspect she works longer hours than most mumsnetters want to. We are all feminists so that probably helps too.

I suppose my point is that women are not always effective at asking for more pay. There was a survey of MBA graduates. Every man on his first job after the MBA got higher pay than every woman. They investigated. Every man thought he was wonderful and did not accept pay offered by the employer and pushed for more. Every woman thought she was very lucky to be offered the job she had been offered and accepted the salary offered to her. There are very useful lessons in that. Also risk - I think I earn a lot as I take risk and deal with change. Some women perhaps more than man take fewer risks and very importantly do not change jobs enough - instead thinking better the devil you know.

Of course these points are only relevant for women who want to earn a lot of money and to progress in a career. Plenty of men and women are very happy with what they have and lower pay. Money has little correlation to happiness.

[upyourninja]

Leoandboos I did indeed - just less than UK national average, so a fair bit less than you guessed.

[daddyorchipsdaddyorchips]

I work in publishing (but commercial, one of the big uns) and you are being seriously underpaid, even taking into consideration that our industry is universally underpaid.

Our rights managers (with nowhere near that level of responsibility) are on £35k+.

I'd be looking for a new job.

[upyourninja]

JaneParker I agree entirely. I have questioned my pay annually and provided salary surveys. When I moved from another dept to this role I checked all the salaries and refused the first salary. Instead I got a 'signing bonus' of

[upyourninja]

Daddyorchips now that is very helpful information thank you.

[upyourninja]

Geekgirl, interesting. Always a possibility. Retraining not an option right now (one DC, planning another) but def something I would consider in a few years.

[upyourninja]

Thanks desertrunner

[Muskey]

Thank you missbishi you have made me feel very happy this morning

[HexBramble]

Know nothing of this industry, but want to comment on the outstanding posts on this thread bar two or three silly time wasters

MN T its usual best.

[HexBramble]

Posted too soon

Good luck ninja.

[upyourninja]

Thank you Hex.

I was just thinking the same. Very grateful for the advice, support, and kicks up the behind.

[BeatriceBean]

Geekgirl.. what did you retrain in?

Im oxbridge and looking at retraining if I can afford it!

[daddyorchipsdaddyorchips]

The closest role we have to yours, here, is the Rights Director and they are on £65k + bonus.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

JaneParker I've also read Lean In but I feel very embarrased asking for more money. Also, once you have young children there's a lot of consideration for a flexible job. I'd rather be in a job that's flexible then working a lot of hours. I also can't make myself asking others how much they earn.

upyourninja luckily my field is very open about pay on job boards. Every job ad has pay range listed. So it's very easy to see that I was very underpaid. I fit all the job spec for jobs going above my then salary. I asked for more pay over a year they just fobbed me off with mumbles of annual pay review. Then I got the chop when redundancy came last year. I did well out of it though as I found another job straight away at what seems to be normal salary for my experience. (£8k more if you are curious). It seems from opinions here in publishing you are underpaid more than that amount for your expertise.

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

I was also staying at my old place because of the maternity pay and I was trying for a child. That took ages and really didn't help. I was quite resentful at the end. Very un lean in I would say.

[upyourninja]

[faints]

Daddyorchips. I am in discussions about next year's salary and job title. I will most likely be made Rights Director, or a comparable title. I honestly didn't know rights could pay that much so that's hopeful in a way. There are of course different pressures in different areas of publishing and there are a lot of perks to being in my company. Pay is not one of them

[upyourninja]

This is probably giving too much away but my last mat pay was just the minimum. Probably I'm an idiot for staying on at this stage but we've had to delay dc2 for many reasons and I wouldn't feel comfortable starting a new job without doing at very least a year before TTC. And as you say things can take much longer than planned.

[wink1970]

Meh, I came in here to say

whatever it is, it's likely 20% less than your male colleague

that is all /

[OneLittleToddleTerror]

upyourninja it's not giving away too much. Part of lean in is saying we women are too embarassed talking about pay. I'm on statutory maternity pay now because the new company is a smaller one and that I haven't worked long enough for enhanced pay. My previous company has 3 months full pay, which isn't fantastic, but still better than 6 weeks 90%.

I didn't feel comfortable about my situation with the new company either. But I took over 18mo and by that time I have basically given up. (ie no contraception but no active trying either). Then I miraculously got pregnant a month after starting the new job. I wouldn't have left if it's not for the redundancy. So I know how you feel.

[upyourninja]

Wink fair point but there are not very men left in publishing

In my office (not head office), we have one man for every 8 women. Every single one of the men has a stay at home wife if they have children. It's a different world. But the new crop of senior folk are all women so things will be very different in the next 10-20 years I suspect.

[upyourninja]

Toddle - really glad it has worked out so well for you in any case, professionally and personally.

[DidoTheDodo]

Just from reading your post (I'll read the rest of the thread in a minute, but don't want to be influenced) I think you are a development Manager and earn £42K.

[DidoTheDodo]

Oh. I was very wrong! No prizes for me.