Priest telling boys how to pee at school?

[Downamongtherednecks]

Tween ds is at a private school, not UK. Most staff are female. There were incidents of the boys’ loos being left with pee around the lavatory bowl, so a male member of staff (priest) took the boys into the loos (in groups) to tell them that this was unacceptable and to suggest that they aim better and that they should perhaps practice more (!).

This was not discussed at all with parents.
AIBU to think this was not an acceptable thing for the school to do? It seems far too private and something surely better handled by parents. Priest has form for sexism so it is possible that may be one reason I instinctively don’t like it. DH (robustly boys’ private-school educated) says this was fine, it's a boy/male teacher thing, and he can’t see a problem with it. Happy to be told I am being biased against the sexist priest. No intention of taking it up with school btw, as dc are leaving anyway. AIBU?

I'm not a teacher but I do recall a group of boys in my son's 5th year (approximately 16/17) being made to paint over graffiti on a school outbuilding. The graffiti was specific enough and appeared at a time and location that this group were the most likely culprit and they didn't deny it. I can't see any difference other than here the boys weren't asked to clear up.

Should the demographics matter this was 7 years ago at a Scottish fee-paying, non-denominational co-ed school.

The teacher didn't say it was " shameful, dirty and disgusting", Animation.

OP, apologies, you said upthread that you'd've been more comfortable with a second teacher present.

I thought that safeguarding measures would have prevented this little loo-lecture from being deemed appropriate

How precisely was any child put in danger by this, OP? The worst consequence even you seem to foresee is that they might be embarrassed. If you fancy calling up Child Protection because a few children might have felt embarrassed, do us all a favour and record the call. I think it may become a comedy classic.

I remember when we were 12 getting a lecture off a teacher because someone did a shit in the urinals, the boys were taken into the toilets and told that the urinals were not for poo.

No one seemed embarrassed, although lots of us were disgusted

I'm not entirely convinced by the cleaner's testimony here. You admit you employ her to clean personal waste. It's not very encouraging that she doesn't think your son is the worst in that context.

Also, I'm sure there are may life experiences that make pissed on floors look like nothing, but again, I'm not sure that anyone is comparing them to war zones or famines. Except you, OP. and once again, it proves that the amount your son pees on the floor is just fine.

Must be delicate wee soles

sorry but I did LOL at this excellent Freudian typo

wee soles is exactly the problem they are trying to avoid

Excellent phantom

I was thinking, as you do, about the cleaner's AIBU. Something along the lines of:

I am a cleaner, and one of my job involves cleaning my employer's 12 year old son's bathroom. He doesn't always aim properly, IFYSWIM, which I accept is the case with a number of boys, but he just leaves it there for me to clear up. I tried telling his mother about it, though I tried to put it tactfully by saying he was better than some, but it didn't really seem to get through to her. What is really annoying me at the moment is that I heard her complaining loudly that someone at his school had been telling off all the boys about this, and she seemed to think that was abusive! AIBU to think that, as he obviously hasn't learned the lesson at home, she should be grateful that the school is teaching him for her?

There is a time and place to educate children (all off ages) about personal hygiene and this issue is the responsibility of the parents/ guardians. If it is not on the national curriculum syllabus the school has no right to 'parent' the children in this way.

None of us know exactly what happened and that is precisely the problem with the scandals which have been mentioned throughout this thread. People assume that everything is innocent and turn a blind eye because it's easy and taboo.

Of course kids should be respectful about using communal toilets and mindful about been clean etc. but these issues are for the families/ carers to approach, not by gathering a bunch of kids in a loo and being told to aim at cornflakes or whatever ludicrous speech the Priest gave.

So what if parents dont teach them, or have the "cleaner will do it" attitude then schools should just sit back and accept it? What a load of rubbish! Should children not be encouraged to keep the classroom/dining areas clean then? And sod being friendly to each other, its not on the curriculum so it doesn't matter hey!

Part of schools responsibility is for helping the young people become well rounded individuals and that includes ensuring they have respect for others and for shared areas.

Anna- so if there is an ongoing problem of pee soaked floors, what do you suggest the school does about it?

Anna - what if the parents/carers simply don't?

'Of course kids should be respectful about using communal toilets and mindful about been clean etc. but these issues are for the families/ carers to approach,'

I'm sick and tired of families not doing it. Not raising children to be decent human beings with self-respect and respect for others. I don't blame the children, how is it their fault if they've never been taught?
But teaching is becoming more like social care across the entire spectrum of wealth. Time was parents taught their children many of the things that schools are now having to cover, from socialisation and relationships to personal hygiene.
The fact that some can employ others to clean up the mess seems to enable them to abdicate responsibility for themselves and their children.

'Anna- so if there is an ongoing problem of pee soaked floors, what do you suggest the school does about it?'

A rota of children to clean the school, like many schols in Japan and China have. or I suppose you could send your ' woman who does' instead. Like having a whipping boy in the past.

If it is not on the national curriculum syllabus the school has no right to 'parent' the children in this way - If I only did the things that are in the national curriculum wow my life would be easier. We could knock off finding missing lunchboxes, administering first aid, providing support for a bereaved child, dealing with playground fallouts from the minor up to full on bullying, etc. It is called pastoral care and it is huge part of our job.

But actually personal hygiene is part of the school curriculum, as is sex education, how to keep ourselves safe and consideration of others.

If schooling really is becoming more like social care then we need to train the staff in this area - not just drag the 'only available male' to deal with the situation in whatever way he sees fit.

I used to work in a school and yes I had to deal with these issues to - cleaning up the kids who hadn't made it to the toilet in time, the fights, the bullying, kids who hadn't washed - but was I trained in these social skills? No. I dealt with everything as sensitively as I knew how to, and cared for each child as much as I would my own, but not every adult who deals with these responsibilities is capable, sensitive or qualified.

DownByTheRiverside - I suggest that if schools want to become involved in this way then they employ a department of pastoral care where qualified adults deal with the issues, or to schedule a meeting with the parents to discuss it. If the parents fail to act, involve social services. The way it is in most educational establishments.

But who's is supposed to be wrong with what he did? Still we have a few posters saying it's wrong but none being able to give a proper reason as to why it's wrong.

Anna, do you not think that SS have more important and urgent things to deal with than teaching someone how not to eat with their hands, how to wash themselves or pee accurately?
I used to work in a community school in an area of severe economic deprivation, so I am very familiar with SS intervention and basic family support.
Likewise I have worked in very affluent areas with indifferent parents and children who are frequently brought up to do as they please without consequences. That's not an SS referrel, that's basic parenting and essential skills not being taught, because neither the child or the parent see why it's a problem.

I'm with sirzy, I wish someone would explain why this was wrong. They seem to accept that it was OK to tell the boys not to do it, but there seems to be some sort of voodoo about taking them actually to the scene of the crime. It's not as if anyone can seriously contend that the boys haven't seen a loo and haven't seen pee before, and surely no-one says it's wrong to talk to people in communal toilets. The worst anyone has suggested is that they might have been embarrassed. And somehow that seems to translate into abuse, without anyone explaining the connection between the two.

I just want to thank Anna for her posts. That's the best laugh I've had in a while.

Given that berating boys over their laissez fair attitude to peeing straight is a parental responsibility can I also suggest that cleaning up spilt wee should be too. I say get some mums in to clean up-or dads so we're not being sexist.

Anna schools do have specialists in every department these days. Really, they do!

Okay Sparks1007 let's just round up all the parents to clean the toilets.

DownByTheRiverside, yes I'm sure Social Services would be happy dismiss cases because they have 'more important and urgent things to do'. You say that it's not 'an SS referrel, that's basic parenting and essential skills not being taught, because neither the child or the parent see why it's a problem.' Surely that's exactly the priority of SS! That's when SS should get involved, right? What you're saying is that when the parents don't care, the SS shouldn't either?

Nomama - I'm glad, but it doesn't sound like this is the case in this instance. Apparently, the only male was pulled in to deal with it.

I wish somebody would tell me in words of one syllable suitable for a bear of very little brain to understand what exactly is wrong with a man taking a group of boys into a loo to show them the mess they've made. I just don't get it!

What an oddly twisted interpretation of my post that was, Anna.
I shall stop trying to explain things, your alternate reality is not one I know.