To be annoyed by the assumption that mothers don't work?

[SuiGeneris]

Just received first email from the class reps (DS starts reception in Sept): pre-start picnic for the children to get to know each other. What a good idea I thought. Until I saw the time: lunchtime on a Tuesday. Email addressed to mothers only even though the school circulated contact details for both parents. Closes with suggestion that those who cannot make it can meet at a coffee morning later on.

I can make neither- work is an hour away and I am out 7-6. Will DS be condemned to social isolation? Could DH attend (busy in this particular case but works nearer)? Could I send our nanny?

But, more to the point, AIBU to be annoyed at the assumption that mothers don't work? They didn't even cc the fathers!

ADP73: your comments are unnecessarily confrontational given you have no idea about our circumstances.

As it happens all our holiday time is apportioned to visiting family abroad (2 days travel time every time, so for example no easy popping over for the weekend) and the UK and dealing with child-related emergencies (no local family to step in).

Also, we will have come back to work the day before, so cannot take another day off straight away.

So yes, actually, one day off for the picnic is not feasible.

So, Sui:

1. who did the email come from?

1. how was it actually addressed?

And you really don't have to go to the picnic and you don't have to be worried that your child will be disadvantaged if he/she doesn't go. Honestly. I'm surprised you are giving it so much head space.

Right, here is my take.

1. The weekend is precious family time, or sports activities with older siblings or indeed reception child themselves. Few would attend.

2. Event organizer is in a position to decide which day suits her, and she may base her decision on experience of past picnics.

3. Sending nanny is fine.

4. Other family is also fine.

5. Fair enough, the offer is there, and not compulsory.

6. Many mum do have flexible jobs, and many "high up" the career ladder are able to just come in later, or work from home when it suits them. It is not just stay at home mums in a class, but a mix of career mums with flexibility, and sahms. In my experience, it does make it difficult for parents who work shifts, to make the time to come.

7. As above, the same goes for dads too.

I have found that several days per term must be set aside to accommodate school events.

In addition, in time you will find that the school relies heavily on parent helpers, and I would not be surprised if the picnic were to suss out who can be relied upon to accompany the teachers on trips, help reading with the children, serious time commitment. That is not counting all the sports events, like when the netball/rugby/football/cricket teams are playing other schools, etc Sad, but there it is.

Women really are their own worst enemies. What they have done - however unintentionally - is to exclude all working parents from this. A weekend or at least late afternoon and including all parents would have been better. If things like this carry on happening the stereotype will be compounded. Although you're lucky to get contacted - our class rep doesn't as she only talks to mothers as DD is met by her dad and grandmother we don't get any info. Can't be bothered with it - means we can go our own way on class presents!

Crikey. Several days per term for school stuff Quint?

My mother came to school once that I remember in primary school, and at that point she wasn't working.

What has happened since the 70s to require this sudden explosion in time needed from (primarily, it seems) mothers? Has education really changed so dramatically?

Minty: it was sent by the class reps and addressed "dear Mothers". The reps could not have been more pleasant and I appreciate their work, so have been v polite in replying back. I still find it sad though that it is assumed that only women care about their children and have engagements that allow them to participate in events that take place midweek during the working day.

Several days here - class assembly, Christmas play/sports day, end of topic class presentation, talks about reading/maths/the next years syllabus. There's family picnics, options to leave midday... Added onto that the option to help with school trips/see kids work.

I was in school for a "thing" today. I think only one child didn't have a parent there for it.

In that case, Sue, then yes fair enough to be miffed.

Minty,Pilgit, Quint: thank you, all good points. Had not thought about weekend sports etc, thankful our family is still too young for that. Also, obviously we will be unable to help with reading, class trips etc so less if a shame to miss the recruitment event. Are all these helpers also needed in private schools or do school staff do it? Have no idea asI studied elsewhere, 36 to a class, with a single teacher, no teaching assistants or anything, so this is all new to me...

My kids are 12 and 9. The youngest is in year 4 in a catholic primary, the oldest in private secondary, so no personal experience of private primary. My friends who have has kids in private primary seen even more involved, not do much in helping, but cheering from the sidelines at numerous sports events! One friend spent teo sfrernoons a week watching cricket or rugby or karate. She said it was " expected", but maybe she just enjoyed it. She wa not working.

Weekends wouldn't be any easier. Loads of people work then. At DC's school there are many term time day time events but I have noticed almost all parents attend, even those usually at work in the day. One is a primary teacher and he gets to go to everything which I think is great. Some work from home some days or swap their usual day. But I feel sorry for those with less flexible jobs. Luckily some grandparents attend when the Mum or Dad cannot.

At our school each term, there are open days, sports days, assemblies, church services and other events. Most parents attend sports day and special assembly but I would say only about a third to half attend the open class days and this drops off as they get older.

Maybe the fathers will have a separate meet up a different day? We organised a father's quiz team in reception and the three dads who went apparently had a good time . We never say that it is a mother's night out and quite a few families seem to either use the father's email account or have a family one. Never seen a father attend unless dragged along by partner for a meal. I would wait and see how the year pans out. I really doubt that he will be turned away from the picnic if he attends.

Primary school does seem a much more open place now. We have class assembly with time to look at work once a term, art exhexhibitions, bring a mum/dad to school day (that's another whole minefield), nativity play, french play, piano recital, school trips, art exhibitions, sports day. That's before you start on the fundraising quiz nights, school fairs camp out etc. It does disadvantage those children whose parents can't take time off in the week so your dh being able to work flexibily will be great for those times. They will soon learn that he or your nanny are the best point of contact. I imagine that there will be a number of class parties on weekends which you can get to.

I think you are being a bit precious about this. It makes sense to have the event in school time as its on the property and maybe the year group is mainly sahms or part time workers so they have gone with what is most convenient for the majority. When you organise a big event you are never going to get something that suits everyone and its not their fault you have inflexible hours.

At the end if the day you have chosen to work full time in a non flex job so why should everyone else have to work around that?

YANBU about the email being addressed to 'Dear Mothers'.

YABU to think they are making assumptions about other people's working lives and be cross about it.

I organised something like this last year for my kids' reception class - I did something during the week (for all the SAHPs who are desperate for something to do during the long weeks of the holidays!) and one Saturday morning (to include the people who work conventional hours). I am the type to overthink things a bit though.

However, I did this in my own time, because I wanted my children (and their future friends) to get to know each other a bit and because I was in the position of being able to help out. I'd have been pretty fed up if I'd known that people were complaining about my efforts. Whoever's organising it is just trying to help.

YABU about the time.

You had better get used to the fact that if you have a child then you will be asked to attend things that they are involved with during working (or school) hours. There will be celebration assemblies, sports days, open days, Christmas, Easter and end of year performances.

YANBU about it being addressed to mums only though.

At my sons Catholic primary, there is also Mass for the new school year, mass especially for your child's class, harvest mass, all saints, carol singing, Christmas, and Easter service which includes a donkey parade through town, Leavers mass for the Year 6s moving on. This is just in Church! You have the same events in school, as mentioned below. So, a lot of involvement.

Is one day too much to ask? I used to plan in days off to have for important school stuff.

I honestly don't regard this picnic as important school stuff. The OP's child hasn't even started school yet and the OP isn't familiar with school life, it's far too early to start 'treating' herself to precious annual leave when she doesn't know how she and her DP will have to allocate it over the next twelve months.

Last year DH and I had to use a week each of our annual leave to cover the school's transition process into reception. This coming after six weeks of summer holidays, and before we had even got to the October half term. Get to know each other picnics come way down the list of priorities for time off work.

There will be other opportunities to meet the parents when term actually starts and the children will get to know each other in the classroom and playground.

Most parents want family time at the weekend. We do, just like our friends. We like to keep school stuff firmly on week days.

Secondly no time will be the right time. Even if an event was organised for 3pm or 6pm weekday or weekend, not everyone could make it as everyone has commitments of one kind or another. It's just life.

Lastly, its only one event. It will not hold back your nanny/son making friends. You're over thinking things.

What has happened since the 70s to require this sudden explosion in time needed from (primarily, it seems) mothers? Has education really changed so dramatically?

I would say that education has changed quite a bit since the 70s. It's a lot more fun now I think, with all the exciting activities and projects they do and I'm certainly asked to attend things, prepare stuff and help my child at home a lot more than my parents ever were. The curriculum they cover is a lot more thorough now than it was at my school. A lot more is asked of teachers nowadays and they involve parents more to help children cover stuff. In my day the teacher just taught the whole class the same thing. The less able children struggled along and the most able may have been bored. Now there is far more effort to tailor to the needs of the child and that is why teaching assistants are needed, to teach small groups. Parents help out etc.

It's different now and i think the children get a more interesting, exciting and more wide ranging education than when I was at school and more tailored to their needs.

YABU. Nobody assumes you don't work, they are picking a time that they can hold it and you can go or not.
You are over-reacting and picking a fight where there is none.

PS. Things that we've had during the school day off hand that my parents wouldn't have had to attend are Target meetings, (to look at our child's work and the targets they have been set, so we can help with this at home.) This is during the school day and is in addition to parents meetings which you can attend in the evening until 7.30. Curriculum meetings, to learn more about how maths/phonics is taught in schools now. Class assemblies. Sports days. Music concerts and the play was after school.

I used to teach reception. I think you are probably reading too much into it. We had a very similar picnic. The time is due to the hours that teaching assistants work and tiredness levels of 3/4 year olds . Some parents would come as they didn't work, worked from home, we're on maternity leave, took a morning off or similar. Others didn't and the nanny, grandparents or even key worker from nursery came. There was no judgement regarding the circumstances of each family. If possible, send your DC with a childcarer or relative. Relax :-)