AIBU to be annoyed at 'girl' judging our family dynamics.

[madchocolatemum48]

A group of friends of a neighbour and I were chatting at a party over the weekend.
We were getting acquainted with the usual "What do you do?" "How many children?".......etc etc.
I said dh & i have been married nearly 20 years, 2 children, I'm a SAHM. Ended with saying "You know, the usual traditional family"
A young woman who had already stated she had 3 kids by 3 fathers, never married, pipes up " Fuc#ing hell, didn't know people still did that old b¤llsh!t stuff"

Is it 'old-fashioned' to be a traditional family now? Maybe she just made me feel old, but I wouldn't have made a derogatory comment about her family dynamics.

I'm not surprised by that study, TondelayoSchwarzkopf. Gender roles lead to a lot of marital strife. Alas, most people aren't gay so a mother and a father are the next best thing.

'a mother and a father are the next best thing'

Depends on the mother, the father and the relationship.

I would think that goes without saying.

Op it sounds like you didn't mean to make a cutting comment but I think when you described your set up as "traditional" it implied that other set ups were worse, particularly hers. So she got upset about it and lashed out - if I had been in her position, I would have just ignored your comment and talked to someone else rather than take it up with you like she did.

So you were clumsy in putting her down and she was mouthy. I expect you'll both avoid eachother in future!

I hope it doesn't happen to you but things in perfect setups can all go to shit overnight so be thankful and never be smug about it.

Perfect setups do go shit overnight for lots of reasons, some unavoidable - some avoidable. If your marriage has been tested and you've stuck around long enough to make it back around the bend, that's an accomplishment. It's not just good luck that makes a resilient marriage.

I was brought up happily by a single mum, my parents divorce was unpleasant and lack of money and more importantly my mums time made things difficult as she had to work so much. But we were happy, and in hindsight I know she did the best she could. Which was a hell of a lot better than being married to my dad! My husbands parents very very unhappily married, and I really believe that is the worst scenario. I do believe two parents ( of either sex) is better than one all things being equal as it is easier, two people to provide emotional and financial support is better than one in most cases. Of course single parents can do it themselves, but it's hard enough sometimes for two people let alone one! But I agree, talk of a gold standard is snotty to say the least. As for the op, does anyone really talk like that IRL?

I don't think I've ever gone to a party where people who had just met sat around giving an account of their family set ups. It sounds more like group therapy than a party.

Wow Marianne, what sort of people do you mix with that they talk like that?! Every conversation about family dynamics that I have heard is a giant moan fest about dh, dw, dp, mil, fil, dm, df, ds, db......
: )

And 2 parent families obviously bring in more income than 1!

jesus wept. How stupid is this comment?!

Your attitude is, frankly, terrifying. Do you teach your children that their friends who come from single parent homes are not quite as good as they are?

For what it's worth, my Mum had a massive chip. She was really fucking angry and depressed at being left alone to raise 3 kids. She definitely had a chip on both shoulders.

wow. What an amazing daughter you are. Not.

Perhaps you should just even begin to imagine how it feels to be left to bring up 3 children on your own...remembering that people like you judge them for it at every turn...school playground, supermarket, Dr's surgery, in the workplace....absolutely everyone considers you little more than 'scum'. Everyone and his wife has an opinion about your life, who you see, where your money comes from, what type of children you are raising...and it's never positive. Even for someone like me, who is educated to Masters level, married later in life after travelling the world, having children 6 years into the relationship, working full time in a professional position...is judged negatively, day in, day out by people like you because my now ex husband ran off with some random woman.

Perhaps you should try and live that life and how it feels, even if it is just in the short term...I can assure you that you would think very differently about what consitutues a 'chip on the shoulder'.

I actually agree with points raised by Numpties and AskBasil. I come from a position where I see us humans in terms of our animal nature. For example, our deep need to seek out companionship is not a choice but an instinctive drive due to being a social mammal species. Given that we evolved to live in relatively small social groups I agree with AskBasil that the ideal situation for kids is to be raised in an extended family type/ social group type environment. Unfortunately, unless you live in a commune most of us can't achieve this. And here is where I tend to agree with Numpties. All things being equal, I think young kids probably do prefer being in a two parent rather than a one parent household, simply because I believe kids prefer having more rather than fewer nurturing adults around them. My experience, and everyone I have spoken to says the same, is that my ds definitely prefers hanging out with both of his parents rather than one . As Kaz Cooke put it in the rough guide to babies and toddlers, small children sit around smiling in an extended family situation as if to say 'These, THESE are my people.'
As for the bit about education and income making the biggest difference. My first point is that claims on both sides that 'research shows' I am always a bit suspicious about. I have a masters in social research and have worked as a professional researcher, and my current job has a substantial research component, and I can tell you that it is always best to read the original research. There is a lot of misrepresented research, or just bad research written to promote a particular agenda where the findings aren't really as supported from the research as the researcher may like. Some researchers are really campaigners, looking for findings to promote their cause rather than being disinterested.
I am though, not surprised that education and income are correlated with good outcomes, though this does not mean that they are the cause of those outcomes. For example, poorer families may be more likely to have parents with mental health problems or addictions. Have not read the research so cannot comment on how it was conducted and conclusions reached..
But putting this aside I think Numpties' point was that, all things being equal, two parents are a bit better than one, and I tend to agree simply because I think more is better as far as the numbers of nurturing adults are concerned. I know my own situation is not ideal from ds's point of view but it is good enough. And I tend to live by the maxim that good enough is enough. Two parent and single parent families are and can be good enough.
Tonde I looked up that summary of research on same sex families and the researchers did point out quite big limitations on the design. My own view (though I never read the full report) is that the findings,for example, could just have been a consequence of education levels of same sex families. My guess is that same sex families are probably not drawn from as wide a cross section of society as opposite sex families.
FInally, Ask Basil, I don't think women being isolated at home is a product of patriarchy so much as education levels and cheap and accessible transport leading to people moving from extended families, leading to women working so there is less of a community network for women at home, and the move from a communal to a more individual society with a high value on 'personal space'. And so on.
Long post! Sorry. I think this is a really interesting area.

Actually, I don't think I meant two parents are a bit better. That was badly phrased. I think I meant young kids probably prefer to have more adults around.

fedupbutfine, I was posting an honest, non Disney description of my Mum as a single parent.
If you'd prefer me to lie and say that she found life easier without Dad, that she was empowered and invigorated by his untimely death, that she soldiered on stoically with a smile on her face, that our 1 parent home was as happy and functioned as well, that our finances were fine and our lives without disruption and trauma at a crucial point in our education, I can't.
It was a bag of shit.
Obviously we all loved her and knew it wasn't her fault. But it was shit. That's the gods honest non Disney truth of it. I've never told her how I feel about my childhood, because it wasn't her fault. And because there's no point.
But I'm free to be honest with a bunch of random strangers on t'interweb. That doesn't make me a crap daughter, it makes me human.

Justpick, thankyou for understanding what I meant!

I was posting an honest, non Disney description of my Mum as a single parent.
If you'd prefer me to lie and say that she found life easier without Dad, that she was empowered and invigorated by his untimely death, that she soldiered on stoically with a smile on her face, that our 1 parent home was as happy and functioned as well, that our finances were fine and our lives without disruption and trauma at a crucial point in our education, I can't.It was a bag of shit.

I am still struggling to understand why this means all single parents (or even your mum) are 'bitter'.

Fed up, I don't think numpties did say or suggest that single parents are bitter. I've reread her posts back to where she talks about her childhood and I didn't see her saying this.

you're right Justpick, I didn't call all single parents bitter.
But I'm pretty certain, if watching my friends divorces are anything to go by, that bitterness is often an inevitable and understandable side effect. Especially if the dh goes off and shags someone ten years younger before refusing to pay adequate child support. I've seen it first hand, where couples start out with honourable intentions, to put the kids first and remain civil..then it goes a bit poisonous.
And I totally get why it would. And don't judge anyone who doesn't do the terribly polite, friendly divorce. One of my closest friends divorced her ex eight years ago and she's still full of rage. Helluva lota emotion and turmoil in divorce and death.

I'm a child of divorce and it was not fun. My parents had the resources to re-establish as two households, but it was an absolutely toxic atmosphere. They completely lost control over me, but they were so consumed with their own personal dramas that they never even realized it.

Sigh.

My mother is full of bitterness because she endured a horrible, unhappy marriage for years on end.

Always kept her man though.

But bitterness is an inevitable and understandable side effect of being a married woman I suppose.

Obviously I don't mean that, because I'm not completely unreasonable.

With respect most of these posts are irrelevant to what this thread is about. The thread is about whether the OP's comments were smug and whether she was patronising in referring to a mother of 3 in her twenties as a "girl"

I think her choice of words were smug and odd and a bit Daily Faily/UKIPPY. I don't see the need to have even introduced it in general conversation at a BBQ.

I was at one last week where I was introduced to several people who were neighbours/various relatives of the hostess. We managed to have a party lasting from 3pm to 11.30pm and I don't think anyone went into our respective marital or non-marital status. I didn't and neither did the woman who was telling me about her son competing in the Commonwealth Games. One of my friends talked at length about his daughters and I mentioned my son. Neither of our spouses were there and neither of us felt any need to explain our domestic set-ups.

I see the way OP referred to herself as a bit smug.

What "girl" in quotation marks is meant to imply defeats me. Was the "girl" a transexual? Mutton dressed as lamb?

Justpickagoddamnname I think you've probably got something about same sex couples being likely to be richer than the average and therefore having better outcomes for their children.

I wonder if it might also be because they've had to think very carefully about how they parent - they know that they will be horribly judged for it and that their DC's may be stigmatised and held up as dysfunctional when they display normal bad behaviour while kids of opposite sex couples can behave much worse and that behaviour will be seen for what it is - normal - so they really have to put the work in to ensure that their kids aren't systematically disadvantaged by bigotry.

Much like any parents who are stigmatised.

I wondered about the "girl" in quotation marks Phaedra.

What does it mean?

Usually if you put something in quotation marks it means you're calling into question the thing you're putting in them.

I'm a bit bemused by it.

Madchocolate mum, I wouldn't worry. There appears to be some unfathomable mass hysteria going on here [scratches head in bemusement]. Fwiw, I would have interpreted your comment "usual traditional family" as almost self-deprecating...along the lines of all very dull and uneventful - that's enough about me...

But you probably didn't mean to convey that either?

Anyway, unlike the woman you encountered and the majority of posters on this thread, I don't spend my life assuming other peoples innocuous comments are thinly veiled barbs intended to insult me (it must be a very exhausting way to live)