AIBU to be annoyed at 'girl' judging our family dynamics.

[madchocolatemum48]

A group of friends of a neighbour and I were chatting at a party over the weekend.
We were getting acquainted with the usual "What do you do?" "How many children?".......etc etc.
I said dh & i have been married nearly 20 years, 2 children, I'm a SAHM. Ended with saying "You know, the usual traditional family"
A young woman who had already stated she had 3 kids by 3 fathers, never married, pipes up " Fuc#ing hell, didn't know people still did that old b¤llsh!t stuff"

Is it 'old-fashioned' to be a traditional family now? Maybe she just made me feel old, but I wouldn't have made a derogatory comment about her family dynamics.

it's a no brainer, surely?
When my Mum got married, she assumed she'd be raising her children with my Dad. That was what she wanted. That's what most people look out for, another parent to share the load and finances with. My Mother definitely didn't think she'd raise us alone after my Dad's unexpected death.
And she's totally certain that life with him in it was better for all of us. And her. No question. Of course she managed without him. She had no choice.
Very few people go into parenting alone. They just don't want to. Its infinitely easier to do it with someone else. And that's before you factor in often cited studies which consistently show that children from single parent families being more prone to depression, abuse, crime etc...
That's not to suggest that women should remain with abusive twats for the sake of staying in a 2 parent family. Obviously not. But, all things being equal, nobody really chooses a single parent set up and there are innumerable good reasons for that.

Numpties whilst that is/was a very enlightening social exploration, I don't think it really really answers my question?

So as previously mentioned, it is NOT better to have two parents than one.

All studies with any credibility at all, show that if the income is equal, there is simply no difference between the outcomes in terms of depression, academic achievements, health, involvement with criminal justice system, between children of lone parents and children of two parents, if you weight the data for income.

In other words, it's not how many parents you have, it's how much money those parents have. The children of lone parents do on average worse than those with two parents, simply because lone parents are poorer. That's all it is. And if the lone parent has a degree, even being poor doesn't affect the results.

You can scoff at the idea of patriarchy as being last century, but given that poverty is still the punishment for being a lone parent, I don't think you can argue that the effects are last century. In parenthood or anywhere else.

All things being equal, it's better for parents to have as many adults supporting their parenting as possible. Patriarchy has arranged society so that women are isolated at home on their own in many cases, doing most of the parenting without the support or help of anyone else. Whether they're married or not.

And it's irrelevant whether women actively choose single parenthood or not, standing by the argument that two parents is some sort of parenting gold standard, does you no credit. It's that sort of attitude that ensures that far too many women do stay in abusive relationships they shouldn't do - because they're aspiring to a gold standard that is actually full of shit for them.

AskBasil thank you for that. That's exactly the point I have been trying to make.

well, most people would disagree with you.
Most people set out in life to bring children up in a 2 parent household.
I could debate this till the cows come home, but this being aibu and all, I could suggest the sky is blue and you would argue that it's purple with pink polka dots.

In fairness, does anyone think about their future as a parent and aim for being a stepparent, or a single parent, or the non RP parent?

Does anyone actually set out with that goal?

It's not the same as saying any of the above is inferior, but dont most people when envisaging their future children, imagine doing it with a loving partner?

slithytove,of course they do. I agree 100%.

Most people would disagree with me because they're not as well-informed about the facts rather than the myths.

You specifically stated that there is a gold standard.

The implication of that, is that you are in the gold standard category and the 25% of parents who are raising children without a partner, are inferior to you. Not gold standard. Something lesser.

Do you really not understand what's wrong with that? Really?

We can talk about why people have that goal slithytove. But it's irrelevant what people want or what they aim for, isn't it? When discussing a "gold standard" we're talking about what actually happens in practice.

And, taking aside the argument about whether being raised by two parents is better for the children, surely it is far easier to be a good parent, as part of a partnership, rather than on your own.

I have had my kids alone for months on end when DP was working away. It was bloody relentless hard work. I have nothing but admiration for single parents. I am very grateful to have my lovely DP to share the load.

so you're being touchy about the 'gold standard' comment?
I can't help it if you have issues.
I'm not going to pretend that most parents and most children would not prefer a happy 2 parent household because it might offend a few people.
I was raised in a single parent family.

at the OP's last comment.

We are not worthy .

"surely it is far easier to be a good parent, as part of a partnership, rather than on your own."

Good question. As part of a good partnership, I'm sure it is. As part of a well-functioning, co-operative group, I'm sure it's easier as well. But many marriages are not good partnerships. They're really bad ones. And in some ways I'm sure it is easier to be a good parent in a bad partnership (practical stuff like not having to rush home from work because there's someone else to pick the kids up), in other ways it's actually easier to be a good parent once you've got rid of the dysfunctional relationship and have the time, energy and humility to actually look at what the fuck was wrong with your relationship (and therefore your parenting) to begin with.

One of the great advantages of splitting up with someone, is that it forces you to look at yourself really critically and honestly and to face up to stuff which you never have to face up to, if you remain in a dysfunctional partnership. I'm absolutely certain that I am a better mother now that I am not part of a bad partnership, than I would have been if I had stayed in that partnership. But from the POV of society in general (or at least the section of it that embraces the notion of the gold standard) they would assume that I was living the gold standard at that time, when in fact I am a much better mother now, providing a much better role model in a much more emotionally and psychologically healthy family. That's something all this bollocks about gold standard aspirations, simply doesn't recognise and I honestly think it's extremely damaging - one of the lies I used to tell myself, was that at least we were still together so my DS must be better off, precisely because I had swallowed this gold standard type lie. If I had stayed with my ex, I have no doubt that between us we would have damaged our DC's, while I am pretty happy that I'm managing to break a very unhealthy cycle by being a lone parent. My ability to be a good parent has been enhanced by being a LP, not damaged. And I'm sure that's true of many people.

numpties if you want to be insulting and a bit nobbish rather than engage in honest discussion, that's entirely your choice.

But for those who are genuinely interested, I'll address numpties' point about most people preferring 2 parents households.

Of course they do - because we've all been brainwashed into believing that 2 parents are the gold standard. But just because we're constantly told that something is better than something else, doesn't mean it is.

you've misrepresented what I said though.
Gold standard refers to 2 happy, supportive partners.
I'm not talking about any old abusive marriage where the husband is an abusive twat. I made that distinction very clear.

A lot of posters on this thread feel the need to mention they often get asked if their children are by the same father then say something along the lines of just because I'm young/ have lots of kids...don't assume that!
So what's your point? That others are judging you or you don't want to be tarred with that brush.

'a bit nobbish'
Lol.
Intelligent comeback.

This is what you said numpties

"it's the goal isn't it (when you have kids).. two married parents, everyone with the same surname, no messy access arrangements with numerous non resident fathers? Of course life doesn't always work out peachy like that, but there's a gold standard for everything. "

Well tbh you are being a bit nobbish.

To accuse someone of having issues because they call you out on a really offensive post, is pretty nobbish. Or if you prefer, passive aggressive, hostile and distasteful? Do you prefer those descriptions?

and your point is what, exactly? That most people deliberately aim to go it alone?!!

Askbasil, you can't move very fast with a giant chip on your shoulder.

I don't have any issue with single Mums.
I was raised by one.
I have an issue with thinking it's just as good for the kids and the parents when you go it alone.
Overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Everyone the same surname.

(Did you not know that married women don't have to change their names nowadays?)

Numerous fathers.

Messy access arrangements

Do you really not see how sneery and unpleasant that post was?

Look, you are quite at liberty to be as snobby and sneery as you want to be. But if someone challenges you on it, it doesn't mean they've got issues or are hung up, it means they think you're being a nob.

I haven't accused you of having any issues. I haven't been sneery about your need to insult women who have different domestic arrangements to you. I am taking issue with what you have actually said. And you have chosen to pretend that means I've got some sort of hang ups and that I'm arguing something I'm not actually arguing. I have no idea why you feel the need to do that.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder, but hey, that's a really easy insult to throw at a single mother.

Well done

Again, you refer to evidence. I've already told you about the evidence. It's down to money and/ or education. You've ignored that.