AIBU to be annoyed at 'girl' judging our family dynamics.

[madchocolatemum48]

A group of friends of a neighbour and I were chatting at a party over the weekend.
We were getting acquainted with the usual "What do you do?" "How many children?".......etc etc.
I said dh & i have been married nearly 20 years, 2 children, I'm a SAHM. Ended with saying "You know, the usual traditional family"
A young woman who had already stated she had 3 kids by 3 fathers, never married, pipes up " Fuc#ing hell, didn't know people still did that old b¤llsh!t stuff"

Is it 'old-fashioned' to be a traditional family now? Maybe she just made me feel old, but I wouldn't have made a derogatory comment about her family dynamics.

Why are you pretending that I'm reducing the role of a dad down to just a fiscal one?

I haven't said that. I've merely pointed out that in terms of all the "evidence" you are determined to present, it is actually income that is the crucial one in terms of outcomes. Your solution to that is to demand that everyone pursues a gold standard of 2 parents it seems, my solution is to advocate for lone parents to not be punished with poverty, so that their DC's can have an equal playing field.

But yeah, I think burgatroyd is probably right, I think you've got yourself into a defensive place where you just can't have a grown up discussion, so it's a waste of time arguing with you. Also the world cup final is going into extra time so I'm going to go and watch it. See you later.

Yes well, we all have our baggage, no matter what kind of families we come from. There are happily married couples that produce unhappy children. Its not just experiences but genetics too and disposition.

lol.
That's all.

You won't win numpties.

Don't you realise, a two-parent family is a completely unnecessary, old fashioned idea. No need to aim for it at all {hmm}

I grew up in a post office - it was shit at times - I worked in it from aged 12 and virtually never had a weekend off and in the summer it was hot and boring and my feet hurt. I had to give up orchestra practice on a saturday morning because it clashed with having to work and I was robbed from being the next Jacqueline DuPre.

I can't say I spend much time telling people not to buy post offices though and how its so much better if you don't live in a post office. I just accept that my parents did the best they could with what was available to them. You don't have to visit your childhood experiences on others, particularly because another child might have loved it. You can choose to do things differently and hope that you (and the fates) are lucky enough to have those different choices.

But there's no point assuming that certain experiences (eg single parenthood) are homogenous because they're not.

I chose to be a single parent, I was 40, with a good job financially stable and luckily so financially stable that when I became ill I was able to downsize reduce my outgoing and work part-time.

DS has only ever known our family with one parent, we have no messy access arrangments or emotional issues of being let down/deserted/financial problems that so often comes with divorce. I don;t say it is perfect that he has no father and I think he deserves one but as he and I have agreed - there's no point having a useless one... that we will look together for a decent one who loves us both and if we don't find one it won't be the end of the world (for either of us).

lol Violet, ain't that the truth!

I have no particular views about traditional/non-traditional family set ups - as long as everyone is happy, who cares?

However, I do think that it is more than slightly tediously boring that at a BBQ the only conversation these women are having is about their husbands/or lack of, and kids.........

Surely there's something more interesting to talk about?

But yes in the bluntest possible terms a two parent family is of course unneccesary. Millions of families around the world in the first half of the last century were raised in a single parent family either temporarily or permanently. In fact you don't even need A parent to be raised in a loving and stable family.

But no, of course you don't need two parents as so many divorced and widowed people have found out for themselves. If you find it preferable then knock yourself out and as a totally lone parent the idea of two income and some divison of labour sounds awfully attractive. But I'm not prepared to shackle my wagon to someones star just so I don;t have to take the bins out or provide DS with a random male role model.

Total commitment to me and my child is required and if I can;t get that then we'll muddle along on our own pretty competently thanks.

""the usual traditional family" sounds a little passive aggressive/patronising to me,"

Really!!

In what way? Only someone with a chip on their shoulder would think that. I know lots of families with 2 or 3 children who are still married to the father of all of their children. I wouldn't have taken that as a dig at all.

Why should we all be aiming for 2-parent families with no kids before marriage? Why assume that what works for one will work for everyone else?

I'm not saying we should, but I still don't think it is a passive aggressive comment. I think some people are looking to be offended.

bunbaker context is everything. The nature of the conversation (combined with the fact that the OP insists on referring to the woman as 'girl') suggests that actually, it was passive aggressive, patronising and goady.

Could someone smart explain to me how this enforcing of stigma towards women raising children independently might have a direct correlation to the fact that we are raised in a patriarchal society?

It occurs to me that we are encouraged to see women having children outside the traditional means as being lacking in some way, morality or such like. Except like the majority of traditional families, they are working just as hard to raise good well rounded children, perhaps even at higher odds.

Sometimes choosing to do so because they no longer want to be victims to a man's inexcusable behaviour. And yet the focus is never on what is lacking in men, but on what must be lacking in the woman.

And that society had not only managed to have men doing that work for them, but women also? I mean we know how hard it is to raise children, so why the infighting, why the tiered system of judgement. Single mum with kids by same man, higher than single mum kids by different men. Marriage at the top, single women with multiple children by multiple fathers at the bottom.

Are we doing it to feel better about our own situations or are we being manipulated by higher station? I've always wondered.

Uuf, just read the first page, the OP's comment doesn't sound like a dig at all. It sounds rather deprecating if anything.

Numpties- I went into parenting solo the first time. My DP had died. I didn't want to ever have a relationship again but still wanted DCs. So I flew solo.

Years later I met DP and had dc2. I found it much harder co parenting than I had on my own.

Money wise I was also better off as a single mum.

So your theory doesn't wash.

Yes, your survey of one is the definitive outcome :) which therefore quashes everything else :)

I'm a lone parent by choice meaning I actively decided to have the children under 5 in my household alone,all were conceived with this intention.

I agree with weatherall

And it is income and education that makes more of a difference to outcomes than pretty much any other factor

As others have stated it seems as though your statement, ""You know, the usual traditional family", however well-meant, upset the younger woman and prompted her to respond in a derogatory way. If your family is happy, and it sounds like you are, just live your lives and forget this comment.

I have never met a group of strangers and had that conversation, ever.

I have been to many a BBQ with plenty of new faces and never once have I introduced myself by saying " hi I'm simple, I have 3 children whom were all conceived with my husband, who I married long before any of them were born. I work part time which I understand May or May not be the traditional setup. Now tell me child, who is the father of each one of your children and most importantly were you married to that man before they were conceived. Are you still married to their father, and if not get the fuck away fro me you unclean slatern!"

I suspect she was defending herself from your comment re traditional family and possible other comments. Don't judge either of you. A child is a gift!

I am not sure that the conversation was about family dynamics. It was about something more static - the component parts of the family if you like.

An item about conversation about family dynamics might go something like:-

'My husband earns all the money and I do the domestic work, but he defers to me on all matters to do with the children and household expenditure, so I'd say that I was the dominant partner in the relationship.'

'Oh that's interesting. By contrast I have inherited wealth and an income from a trust fund so have not needed to tie myself to one partner for financial security. Nevertheless I've developed a flourishing career However my older daughter, is increasingly wanting to see more of her waste-of-space father, and seems to resent my high-flying position in the financial sector.'

So summing it all up, you judged her and she judged you. But you feel that you've more of a right be be offended/aggrieved because your situation is objectively better (you believe).

Your comment can only be construed as a dig, OP, but you must know that.

I don't really care what other people do, but I will encourage my own children to get married, strive mightily to avoid divorce, and have children with one woman (assuming they're not gay, which I suspect they're not). I don't think this mode is "outdated".

If we're talking about evidence there is one big study that shows children are healthier and happier if they are raised by two parents...of the same sex than if they are raised in 'traditional' family units.