to think Paul Smith of Carnage Event is a cunt

[AgaPanthers]

So following the news coverage of one of his reps asking a girl to suck cocks to win a free 'Holiday', he has said that it was nothing to do with him and the girl was disgusting and badly brought up. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2687338/Carnage-boss-Magaluf-sex-act-party-blames-teens-upbringing-behaviour.html

Have a look at their Twitter feed: twitter.com/Carnagemagalluf they retweet 'What kind of person gives 24 bj's on holiday for a drink?! disgusting is an understatement @Carnagemagalluf #slag' and are basically totally gleeful about it until showing up to a press conference scared they might lose their licence and blaming the girl for doing exactly what she was told by them.

“That said, not everyone has to be a sheep, so why are the British abroad more likely to be sheep and behave like this than other nationalities?”

Sorry but this notion that it is just (young) Brits abroad who behave like stupid drunken eejits and that our continental cousins are impeccably well behaved is utter bollocks. I have had the fortune to live and work in Italy, Sweden, Netherlands, France and Germany and with the possible exception of France the kids there were no different to the Brits in terms of macho booze culture (especially the Dutch, Germans and Swedes). The main difference I seemed to notice was that they were less prone to start vandalising stuff after a night on the sauce.

Each nation seems to have its favourite ‘young’ holiday destinations, for the Brits it is the Balearics, 600,000 Dutch go to Greece every year, the Swedes love Antalya in Turkey and if you go to a bar in any of these destinations there you will see the same shenanigans.

that is true, I have seen the Swedish and Germans and Italians in action in Greece and it ain't pretty.

I went on a couple of 18-30 holidays with friends when we were aged 18-20 - this was in the mid-90s. We completely ignored any of the (quite expensive) trips proposed by the reps - remember one being a pirate ship where such shenanigans as described in the thread were said to go on- and booked our own -cheaper- trips like dolphin watching instead. We were called "boring" by the reps but after a few days they left us alone.

I would have been embarrassed and a bit terrified to be stuck on a ship with a sort of mass orgy going on.

We did go out and party and did have holiday flings- but on our own terms.

I massively judge the reps and companies doing that more than the holiday-makers involved, especially when they are then slut-shaming on Twitter. A pox on them.

Whoever mislead the young woman into thinking she was getting an actual holiday rather than a cocktail is a wanker.
Whoever made this news is a wanker.

I think the only part where the young woman is a victim is in respect of the deliberate misinformation about the prize. She did choose to participate and I get the impression that it is very clear what sort of trip this is.

I think if it had been a man performing oral sex on women then the women would be seen as totally blameless on MN with nothing equivalent to "Firstly I blame these so called men, why did they get thier cocks out." being uttered at all. As I understand it, they did not all participate willingly, some were sexually assaulted and more of a victim than the young woman.

I fear for my sons TBH. They are only a few years away from this kind of holiday - I hope I can instil a sense of self respect and restraint into them before they go. It would seem that, as a male, their place is to always be in the wrong in this kind of thing.

I also fear for my DD and have similar hopes for her. She is much younger though.

I agree owl she was tricked with respect to what she was doing this for, but to lower yourself to that level is not good. No she is not only to blame, the organisers, the men, the lack of self worth or respect for a woman to do such a thing.

'We were called 'boring' by the reps'

Exactly. People like Paul Smith provide more and more extreme events at which young people 'prove themselves' by doing more and more extreme things, and they also perpetuate the idea that if you don't do it, you're boring or frigid.

I remember being 18, and I was clueless. I was also desperate to fit in. We've all done stupid shit when we're drunk and 18 - not necessarily sex acts, but stupid stuff. Nicking something from a skip, weeing behind a bush, climbing a wall because it seemed funny at the time and all our mates were laughing. Then you feel a bit stupid when you wake up in the morning.

Now imagine you're 18, completely removed from your normal surroundings, on your first holiday without supervision, with free access to alcohol, trying to show how crazy and party you are and to fit in with everyone else. Now add someone like Paul Smith and his repulsive DJ. Carnage, indeed.

“A drunk young woman, barely an adult, who does something sordid and degrading with a bunch of guys because they've all been encouraged to think that's cool and wild and don't-give-a-fuck”

Ah yes, a nice neat emotive polarizing black and white critique, the innocent versus the morally bankrupt, ’barely adults’ pitted against ‘grown men’ who are out to make a fast buck.

Do these young adults bare any responsibility for their actions in these type of holidays or is it always the fault of someone else?

Well, I didn't attempt to say what her motivation was chu. I can't know that, and neither can anyone on this thread. Despite this, there's been plenty of black-and-white statements made about the girl's moral character on the negative side.

I'm saying that in the balance of things, I'd go with Paul Smith being the more 'disgusting'.

Even at 18 and at uni you have limits. Yes I would get pissed, but not so much that I did what thus young woman did, my mates the same. Not only that, you put your safety at risk, you can get run over, or fall in water.

Well exactly aeroflotgirl I did some very stupid things when young one night stands etc I can only blame myself for this but that said I had some limits !

Even if the girl in question got foolishly drunk and has a skew-whiff moral compass, does she deserve to be called a 'disgusting slag' and have her parents insulted on national media, by the person who organised the event at which the incident was deliberately set up by a member of his staff?

It's so very sad. YANBU OP.

No of course she doesn't adam I think she was foolish, naieve and behaved badly as did all involved sadly in this day and age though when this behaviour can be instantly uploaded on the internet its not something she can just walk away from .

atrocious man

The whole thing is beyond vile and everyone should be responsible for their own actions.

She would be wise to get to an STI clinic, god knows what she could have caught.

Actually it doesn't really matter what she's like at all and none of us know anyway.

She could be naieve and innocent, out of her depth and trying to make the best of it, or she could be a ravening nymphomaniac determined to beat her 100 cocks in five minute personal best.

What she's like, has no impact on what he's like. We don't know what she's like, but we do know that he's an exploitative, misogynistic, hypocritical piece of shit. That's not in question.

Nicely said askbasil.

In my late teens and early 20s i used to get in some right states, but never 'sucking off strangers especially in public', states.
That's just nasty.

I went on one 18 to 30 when 19 in the late 90s. I hated it. I hated being treated like a piece of meat and that it was encouraged by the reps. Every girl was simply regarded as a hole one of the reps and/or guests were going to fill at some time or other.
The female reps would loudly shout about how ladette they were and only the really fun and up for it guys could shag them.
I went on one boat trip where i remember the 'game' was to be locked in a cupboard after necking vodka with a member of the opposite sex and swap swimsuits
With them. Basically all the guys were promised to be shown tits.
Quite funny until people were pretty much forced and when the girls came out loads of jeering drunken guys would grope her all over.
It got frightening. Girls were literally being grabbed and shut in. And because it was a boat you were trapped. I remember my friend and I being scared and ended up hiding near the local boat staff who were nice and just talked to us quietly and said we could go in the captains bit if we wanted to.

Never never again.

After that i refused to go on anything the reps suggested and we would leave when any pool 'games' were started as giving people I'd never met blow jobs underwater just wasn't my cup of tea.

Basil, you've expressed yourself better than I managed to.

Agree 100%.

YANBU. It is a sad sordid mess all the way round. To be damn certain though, if we are going to hold that young miss to a high moral standard, we damn well better hold those 24 men, who stuck their cocks in her mouth, to that same standard.

My point about being 18 was not that everyone's done stuff like this, but that at that age the combination of heady freedom, ready access to booze, under-developed understanding of risk and desire to be accepted makes you ripe for exploitation.

Also, everyone's different. Some more introverted, some more adventurous, some with good self-esteem, some with crap friends, etc etc etc. Sure, I didn't do anything this extreme, but then I'm me. I was pretty uncool and would have been a bit intimidated by an 18-30 holiday. I did less extreme stupid shit though, for sure. I'm prepared to believe that other 18-year-old girls might end up doing extremely stupid shit for the same reasons I did fairly stupid shit.

Although, as askbasil has pointed out, the question of the woman's motivation is actually irrelevant, I just wanted to introduce another way of looking at her other than 'She's a skank'.

I hope to god neither of my dcs go on these holidays. My sister did once and witnessed a 17 yr old lad forcibly having shorts and pants removed by two reps. He was crying. Cunts.

I've been thinking about this some more and getting more and more angry about it actually. At 18 and your first time abroad, you don't know what "normal" is. If everyone around you looks as though "hey, this is what we do all the time, this is how stuff is, this is what you've come for, this is how it's done", how many of you judgemental women would have had the self-belief, self-confidence and courage to think to yourself that that's not right, I'm not comfortable with this, I'm not doing it, especially when all the people around you are telling you that actually, this is what this sort of holiday is all about and why did you come on in if you don't want to participate?

If you had the strength of mind at age 16,17, 18 etc., to see through that and stand up for your right to do your own thing and not give a shit about the risk of being a social outcast for doing so, good for you, you're really lucky. But FFS don't condemn most of the young girls who are socialised by our society to go along with what's happening, who are too inexperienced to know if what they're seeing around them for the first time is widely considered as normal letting-your-hair-down-on-holiday behaviour, wild-daringly-Bohemian-anything-goes stuff, or super-tacky sordid shit. Personal responsibility is a fine thing in principle, but when you're so young that you're still learning what the difference is between sowing wild oats and behaving like a complete arsehole, then that personal responsibility needs to be supported by environments which don't deliberately push the wild-oat-sowing into the arsehole territory for whatever purpose. Adults are responsible for providing an environment in which young people can flourish, learn and experiment safely; washing our hands of that responsibility and allowing vile people like Paul Smith to set up environments in which young people don't stand a chance, then tut-tut about the results, is vomit-inducing hypocrisy IMO.

The men who run the whole thing know exactly what they're doing and they don't mention to the young people that as soon as they've finished bullying them and cajoling them into behaving like a member of Caligula's court, they're going to go and call them dirty slappers for having done so and expose them to the hatred and opprobrium of the stupider elements of society, some of whom may be in charge of their job opportunities in future. (Obviously only the girls, the boy's behaviour is irrelevant as men aren't held accountable for their sexual behaviour.)

How anyone adult can possibly think that the young people's behaviour comes anywhere near as reprehensible as that of the sordid older creeps who are egging them on, is really beyond me. The more I think about it the more sickening the baying about her morality becomes.

Agree with Adam's first post.

And Basil's last post.