To think that the outcome of any child abuse probe centering around Westminster is foregone?

[MarmaladeShatkins]

And the outcome will be that no living politicians will be outed?

I think they will pin it on a few deceased MPs and continue to cover up the involvement of any public figures still alive. There might be one sacrificial lamb to silence the public but I think it will still be a big cover-up.

I do not believe that the police should police the police and that is exactly what is happening with Butler-Sloss heading the inquiry.

I was struck by the insistence that EBS had known 'nothing' about any of the events in the past and her brother's possible/alleged role.

Knew nothing? So this 'eminent', 'distinguished', etc etc former judge had absolutely no idea, not only about pretty highly-publicised current events at the time, but about what her own brother was doing as a major public figure within the establishment - of which she was also a part?

That sounds entirely likely, right?

It'll be exactly the same as any other inquiry; an almost total whitewash with a couple of minor figures thrown to the lions. But what they don't seem to understand is that there's this thing called the internet, and once something is out there it never goes away, regardless of super injunction.

Oh lordy, yes, DoctorTwo.

The David Icke forums have been quite a revelation on the whole thing and everything they (or most of them) say has weight to it, I'm afraid.

well 'shiny Dave' managed to get quiet upset about the very very old news about antibiotic resistant superbugs on the day the enquiry was announced

typical slight of hand there

YANBU OP - it's depressing

Marmalade don't worry - lizard people aren't real

I bet they are!

I think in another few years, folk will be less likely to write Icke off as a raving loon. He was on the ball about Jimmy Saville.

A broken watch is still right twice a day Marmalade

On EBS, I think she was chosen because she has led child abuse inquiries sensitively and effectively in the past. I find the suggestion that because she's in her 80s she isn't "top of her game" quite distasteful.

The problem with finding someone to lead any inquiry is that there are relatively few people with the neccessary skills and expertise.

Think about the kinds of skills and experience you need to have to do a controversial inquiry well. Legal expertise, witness handling, evidence examination, examining policy recommendations, working with highly emotive groups of stakeholders, coping with the tabloid press and angry politicians and campaigners. And that is just for any old inquiry - think about what something involving sex abuse needs on top of that.

And what sort of jobs develop and prove these sorts of skills and expertise? Well not very many - being a judge, possibly being a senior civil servant. The kinds of jobs which make somebody "establishment".

There are positives and negatives to it not being a serving judge. EBS's career is more or less behind her, so one risk of bias which can be ruled out is the potential fall out in terms of advancement.

Moreover, if you search hard enough (which there are plenty of journalists, bloggers, conspiracy theorists able and willing to do) you will be able to find some sort of connection on anybody which will people can use to say that they aren't impartial. Same happened to Leveson in the early days of that inquiry.

I don't mean by this that there AREN'T concerns with the inquiry OR that EBS IS the right choice to lead it, just that it isn't as straightforward as "find someone who isn't "one of them" and has no connections which could be presented as impacting upon their judgment".

But she isn't at the top of her game dancing, she's 80.

It's not being ageist or using stereotypes to suggest that although she's got experience and resources by the bucket load, she's not going to have the vigor and energy someone in their 50s might have to go through this with a fine tooth comb.

It's also not distasteful to point out that she's near the end of her life, what happens if it ends while she's half way through?

It is the assumption that an 80 year old isn't up to it that I find distateful. If she actually isn't up to it, that's another thing. Plenty of 50 year olds lack vim and vigour. Plenty could die tomorrow. 80 can be completing the times crossword in half an hour and going ballroom dancing four nights a week or it can mean barely knowing your own name and finding it difficult to step out of doors. I don't know where EBS falls. I would hope that she was assessed before appointment - as I would hope that anyone would be.

She's an 80 year old woman. Therefore assumptions are made. I suspect if she was a man her age would be less of an issue.

Her age is irrelevant to me.

Her position, past hiccups wrt to Cleveland and her relationships with those being investigated are what's bothering me.

That will go poof, Glasgow but I share your thoughts on him.

I have been a long term follower on the DI forum since the JS story broke, and I am furious about all of this. It is at once horrific, deeply sad, and maddening. The information is out there, a lot of it makes perfect sense.

It is very clear the powers that be are planning to cover this whole thing up, they are convinced us useless eaters will move on soon.

My money is on something terror related to overshadow this in the news in the next few weeks and move our tiny minds to other things. They are working up to it now with hazy disinformation about electronic devices at airports etc.

"My money is on something terror related to overshadow this in the news in the next few weeks and move our tiny minds to other things. They are working up to it now with hazy disinformation about electronic devices at airports etc."

Absolutely.

I thought they would have at least tried to make it look like they were going to do a proper inquiry but with the appointment of B-S, they are making it plain that they don't give the tiniest shite about what the public think. Arrogant fuckers need hauling over the coals for this.

someone needs to step forward in all this and do something.

Yep. Someone that makes the establishment shit themselves, like Russell Brand.

If Russell Brand is our best hope then we are truly fucked.

I think you're right marmalade but I don't think Russell Brand has enough credibility.

Russell Brand, yeah coz he's not an arrogant misogynistic muppet or anything

Gordy, I remember hearing Dave getting very excited about some Big Important Announcement about antibiotics and super bugs on that day - I had a brief WTF thought but forgot about it. What you say about the timing is very interesting

I agree, and I really hope we won't be fobbed off with a couple of dead sacrificial lambs, but I can understand why many people just don't want to think about it. It is grim and awful subject matter and, while I've done my best to read up on the background, the effect has been so profoundly depressing that I really would like it to just go away.

But for the sake of all the children it happened to, and all that it might happen to in the future, we simply can't afford to turn away imo.

What exactly do you imagine Russell Brand is going to do to 'make the establishment shit themselves'?

Whether you like him or not (I am ambivalent) he does have the gift of making the average person listen. He's a very good speaker and is prolific. He, or someone else of his standing who is equally opposed to the establishment, has more chance of getting people to listen and oppose actively than an online petition. Sadly, people respond to celebrities, like that or not, it's true.

"Yep. Someone that makes the establishment shit themselves, like Russell Brand."

This is, presumably a joke...........

I don't know, I think celebrity culture is one of the things we should be dismantling, given Savile and all the others.