to be getting hot and bothered about the Vit D push?

[stinkingbishop]

I am prepared to be corrected but, having been hassled yet again by the HV about giving the twins Vit D because of the oft cited 'rise in Rickets', and saying, again, that they had a good diet, including oily fish, and play outside, and again being made to feel like I am stubborn/neglectful, I am getting rather worked up.

As I understand it, one of the main reasons we all have different coloured skin is because we have evolved to be able to absorb the optimum amount of Vit D from the sun (or rather for the sun to catalyse our absorption). Those in very sunny climes have darker skin so they don't overload; us peely wallies are that way because we have such brief windows. Interestingly, it's why Inuits have darker skin than, say, Scandinavians, because they eat so much fish. Very clever, Nature.

Vit D deficiency is caused by a mismatch between your current environment and what you evolved for. So someone whose ancestors lived in the Congo and is now in Stornoway really needs to eat a lot of herring. It's compounded by inner city living eg not having a garden, being inside most of the time. And also strikes some Asian populations because of vegetarian diets and processed flours used in eg chapatis, and because of a culture of covering up, especially girls, and staying at home.

I can't find anything online which shows the incidence of Rickets amongst caucasian children in Britain who play outside regularly (15 mins a day) and have a good diet. Is there anything? Have there been cases? Where should I be looking?

If it genuinely is a problem, I will calm down. But at the moment I just wonder to what extent this national, indiscriminatory push is motivated by the Government's desire not to be seen as racially profiling (but we SHOULD profile for some conditions, because your ethnicity does correlate with various issues and potential issues) and/or because they're using some research funded by whoever it is manufactures the supplements (I have no evidence of this because again I can't find anything).

So, do I calm down, or do I fire something off to whoever is in charge of briefing Health Visitors? It just seems yet another thing to beat nervous, unsure new Mums with. For the vast majority of whom, if I'm correct, this is a complete non-issue.

apermanentheadache that's an interesting point about farmed v wild fish.

Okay, so the evidence is pretty compelling...

That spray looks quite good - do you have to give it daily to a toddler or can they have a larger dose less frequently?

I am one of those who doesn't really like the thought of taking things every day for no good logical reason.

Thanks Thumbwitch that's really clear. Hard to tell on some of the websites that are full of hyperbole and almost science, mixed in with facts!

I've just had a vit d3 and k2 liposomal spray delivered. It's got 1000iu of d3 and 100mcg of k2 in it too, which is apparently 125% of k2/ menaquinone.

I do take more colecalciferol (prescribed) but I am becoming a fan of the liposomal spray format as its so easy to take, and I have to take so many ruddy pills that I find myself avoiding them, which kind of defeats the point!

Where does everyone buy their D3 spray from.
It's about £7.50 on the health food shop in town.
Is it cheaper online?

oily fish is a red herring apermanentheadache

Sorry. Carry on

To be fair 7 days - herring is indeed an oily fish.

I just love puns!

Sorry - carry on with the science. It's illuminating

I didn't even put it in as an intentional pun - ooooops

I'm part way through the video - now feeling bad that I breastfed my children (an unusual feeling!). I don't remember any advice about supplementing with vitamins when they were babies.
They have multivitamins now as they are fussy eaters but I'm now wondering if that is enough vit D.

I'm breastfeeding too Shiny and I wasn't very conscientious about taking my vits after the 12 week folic acid thing, so could well have had low levels.

Should a breastfed baby be given drops? DS is 6 weeks.

Finding this thread very interesting. I will do some more in depth reading I think.

When DS was a baby we lived in Bulgaria and the nurse we went to for his jabs and check ups etc was Swedish and she suggested giving DS supplements as it was the norm in Sweden. We did then but haven't for years.

I have friends who have always been fanatical about sunscreen and their Dd was diagnosed with lupus at 14.

I'm overweight. DS is tall and skinny but spends a lot of time indoors. Doesn't eat well. Never earpts fish or green leafy veg.

I suspect we would all be deficient.

Drops are advised after 6m, but be aware of your own levels. Definitely don't feel bad about bf, as the evidence on the benefits of breastmilk is really strong !

The other confusing factor is that the formula companies have jumped on the Vitamin D bandwagon as a means of promoting follow-on milk, in various adverts, which may discourage some parents.

A quick look at the contents list (online) for a first milk says that it would contain 1.2ug of D3 per 100ml prepared feed. This is the same as 0.0012 mg (milligram).

Not sure how to convert this to IU. Any views on whether this is enough?

12.5 mycrogram is 500 i.u.

I'm Celtic bluey-white and can burn in 20 minutes, so have never sunbathed and always use high factor cream. I was tested for low thyroid function recently as my legs and back ache all the time. the test was negative but I'm now starting to think I need to supplement with Vit D..

Thumb, thanks for your informative posts on this thread! I've not been able to find any reliable (non-marketing) info about Vit D recommendations, and have been thinking they might have clearer ideas in Australia.

Going to read my vitamin labels now.

Interesting topic OP.
I do think more targeted information would be beneficial.
I was talking to an Afro-Carribean colleague who had no idea that his dark skin would be likely to cause Vit D deficiency at this latitude. He also had no idea that white skin was an adaption that evolved due living so far North.

Im white and supplement.

My daughter is mixed race with darker skin, I dont put sun lotionon her unless she is going to be out for over an hour. She has supplements with extra D in winter.

I found this relevant paper
Severe vitamin D deficient rickets in black Afro-Caribbean children
"Responses to a recent questionnaire sent to paediatricians in the West Midlands suggest that rickets is being seen in the Afro-Caribbean population.3 However, most attention has been given to the risk of rickets in the Asian population in the UK. Most vitamin D is obtained from the action of sunlight on the skin as 7-dehydrocholesterol is converted to cholecalciferol (vitamin D3). Undoubtedly increased skin pigmentation would have played a role in the decreased levels of vitamin D shown in the present cases"

Glad they've been helpful, Garlic and Miscellaneous. :)

This is one of my favourite sources of information on vitamin D www.vitamindcouncil.org/
and this bloke is another Oliver Gillie

Should have said - vitamin D is a bit of a buzz thing in Australia just now, mostly, I believe, because of their "slip slop slap" policy on avoiding sunburn. Children are expected to have sunscreen on at all times when outdoors (DS1 doesn't, nor does DS2 - only when they're going to be out for a while, as I said before).

But because it has been potentially linked with certain cancers, including bowel and malignant melanoma, with MS, with Alzheimer's, with miscarriage and subfertility, and more obviously with osteomalacia (the adult version of rickets), vit D deficiency could be costing the health services a huge amount of money, so the GPs here tend to be quicker off the mark to test for vit D levels. Which is great, I think!

Should a breastfed baby be given drops? DS is 6 weeks.

I gave my ds d drops from birth, that is the recommendation where we live. It was really easy to give them, we just dripped them into ds's mouth, he loved then and still does, they don't taste like anything, just a bit oily.

I should have said he was exclusively breasted until 6 months so I felt it was important that he had the drops.

ty ikea. food for thought

Even if your own levels of vit D are good, you still are unlikely to be supplying enough in your breastmilk. The recommended dose is 400 IU/d for breastfed babies (not for formula fed, though, as most formula milks are vit D fortifed) but care has to be taken to buy the correct formulation of vit D and make sure you use the dropper properly.

The one I have actually comes with a syringe so there's no doubt about how much he's getting!

The risk of giving them too much vit D is that they could have too much calcium in their bodies, which can prove dangerous to the kidneys in babies.

I suspect I DO get enough vitamin D because I swim outdoors for an hour five days a week, wearing a bikini.
But I am unusual.
My permatan has done wonders for my psoriasis

Would carefully controlled sunbed use do it, I wonder. My aunt always said it made her feel great, mood, sleep etc

Like that guy in the video talking about the reptile light for iguanas to prevent deficiencies

7days interesting point re sunbeds. There was a company in the US offering these. The problem is that UK sunbeds are high intensity to maximise tanning rather than vitamin D production.

I thought last winter if I had spare cash I would look into a business for vitamin D sunbeds!!

I had a couple of sessions over the winter for 4 minutes to up my vit D and felt energised by them but was concerned about the melanoma risks...