to be getting hot and bothered about the Vit D push?

[stinkingbishop]

I am prepared to be corrected but, having been hassled yet again by the HV about giving the twins Vit D because of the oft cited 'rise in Rickets', and saying, again, that they had a good diet, including oily fish, and play outside, and again being made to feel like I am stubborn/neglectful, I am getting rather worked up.

As I understand it, one of the main reasons we all have different coloured skin is because we have evolved to be able to absorb the optimum amount of Vit D from the sun (or rather for the sun to catalyse our absorption). Those in very sunny climes have darker skin so they don't overload; us peely wallies are that way because we have such brief windows. Interestingly, it's why Inuits have darker skin than, say, Scandinavians, because they eat so much fish. Very clever, Nature.

Vit D deficiency is caused by a mismatch between your current environment and what you evolved for. So someone whose ancestors lived in the Congo and is now in Stornoway really needs to eat a lot of herring. It's compounded by inner city living eg not having a garden, being inside most of the time. And also strikes some Asian populations because of vegetarian diets and processed flours used in eg chapatis, and because of a culture of covering up, especially girls, and staying at home.

I can't find anything online which shows the incidence of Rickets amongst caucasian children in Britain who play outside regularly (15 mins a day) and have a good diet. Is there anything? Have there been cases? Where should I be looking?

If it genuinely is a problem, I will calm down. But at the moment I just wonder to what extent this national, indiscriminatory push is motivated by the Government's desire not to be seen as racially profiling (but we SHOULD profile for some conditions, because your ethnicity does correlate with various issues and potential issues) and/or because they're using some research funded by whoever it is manufactures the supplements (I have no evidence of this because again I can't find anything).

So, do I calm down, or do I fire something off to whoever is in charge of briefing Health Visitors? It just seems yet another thing to beat nervous, unsure new Mums with. For the vast majority of whom, if I'm correct, this is a complete non-issue.

Multivitamins rarely have enough Vit D. I think its relatively an expensive vitamin to "collect" so just a token amount based on very old recommended levels seems to be the norm

I'm on 1000iu for life once your levels have dropped below a certain point NHS recommends lifetime suppliments

I was diagnosed with the autoantibodies specific for a rareish autoimmune disease shortly before being tested with undetectable Vit D levels. My autoimmune disease is liver-related so it possibly accounts for some malabsorption even though my liver function is currently stable.

Interesting thread, thanks everyone who has posted.

A question: for the last few years I've had a massive emotional crash in September/October time. Always assumed it was SAD though it seemed too early in the year. Now I am wondering whether it could be related to a decline in my body's vitamin D production as it goes from summer time levels of sun exposure to shorter days ??

Might give vit D a go this year. What high street brand should I use? Are the supermarket vitamins ok?

I posted a link to a good one upthread. The reviews are very positive for them. I've been using them for a couple of years and am very happy with them.

Is that the Amazon one? Thanks Speaker.
What's all this about needing to consume vit D with fat or oil for better absorbtion ? Do I need to worry about that or do you just take the tablets on their own ?

If it's a capsule, it's probably in oil anyway. I read something last night about needing to take it with vitamin K2 ...

Yeah Speaker's link is a capsule. Will order it and give it a go. Can't hurt I guess !

I'm a scientist, used to reading and assessing papers from a wide range of discplines.
I don't blindly accept blanket health recommendations, but examine the scientific evidence for each and decide for my personal body and lifestyle.

Based on overwhelming peer-reviewed science, I take D3 daily.

This article VitD by a doctor has a lot of useful information and lists many scientific papers at the end

Not sure if I may have missed a post explaining, but why would we all or most need vit D now, but havent seemed to for say the last 70 years?

Myself, partner and children always take vitD, lack if it is linked to MS.

I take one k2 for every 10,000iu I take. Vit D needs K2, so it burns up your resources - alternatively it you eat lots of green veg you might be fine.
I take 20,000iu a day of Vit d but I'm fighting an autoimmune condition with no cure, so I have nothing to lose, my levels are being tested on a 4-6 week basis. I'm trying to raise my levels towards the upper limits of the safe range. After 3 months doing this and lots of sun exposure, I'm at upper average, the last GP I saw said my levels were very unusual - again she said most people are either deficient or just scrape through, no idea what I was before I started...because the GPs weren't keen to do anything without a firm diagnosis - fair enough, I had a vague diagnosis and I didn't wish to wait.

Setting over the last 70 years we
Work inside more
Use sunscreen at an increasingly obsessive rate - factor 50 why? It's not needed for most people
We avoid midday sun
Cover up when outside
Sit in the shade
Travel by car bus and train rather than by foot and bike
Kids play inside on computers tv etc rather than playing outside.

All this contribute to much less sun on our skin than we had 70 years ago and that's enough to make this a modern phenomena.

Why didn't previous generations need to take vitamin D supplements

The same reason they didn't need any vaccinations, antibiotics, surgery, free NHS .....
Our life expectancy is higher each generation because of all these damn new-fangled ideas.

Also re Vit D, previous generations could play / work outdoors most waking hours.

I struggle to understand how something as simple and safe as basic vitamin supplementation causes such controversy.

There is plenty of quality information out there (as some members have already linked to) and yet people still choose to go by 'gut instinct' or what their great Aunt Fanny told them 30 years ago.

Rainydayblues
20000IU daily sounds like a lot! The Vitamin D council suggests that might be too much if taken daily for a long period.

Rickets was a massive problem in the 1800's both among the urban poor and the aristocracy. There are loads of Rachitic (sp ??) skeltons dating back even further. After the 1st world war they started recommending cod liver oil (which contains high levels of vitamin D)for children ,expectant and nursing mothers. I think it was given to the baby boomers at school. This is not a new problem. I suppose that pre-industrial revolution the serfs were out side enough and being an island the diet would have been higher in fish.

I know longtime, that's why I have regular blood tests!

I've been reading about vit k recently, being essential to utilise calcium & vit d. As I was so ill with it, I am concerned that I'm missing an important link in the chain.

Anyone know anything about this?

Nb im shocked at the anti-supplement brigade on here and don't want to add to that, but I do think people taking such huge amounts of vit d, like 20,000 ui a day should consult a doctor, as that is massive and needs to be taken with medical advice and monitoring.

My rheum put me on 20,000ui a week when my levels were evening out a bit but still incredibly low. And as you'll see up thread I was very very ill, so it's not a minor dose.

Just be a bit careful please!

Meh.
I went to a talk 20 yrs ago by an eminent guy (later became a Prof) working in public health who was absolutely adamant that white people only needed half hour/day outside to get enough Vitamin D (I've heard other MNetters say so, too). The talk was all about sun cancer, you might guess.

Can't be asked to do supplements, try to get us out in sun a lot (so not taking the Prof's advice on that one, either).

Misc for the third time - I'm on high levels and they are being monitored!

Sorry Rainyday I thought a few people had mentioned it? Sorry if not as I read your post and felt for you. foot in mouth brigade signing in here if I skim read a bit too much...

Do you take vit k as well? I don't know how much of a proven concern it is?

Half an hour is enough to prevent rickets lljkk. It may not be enough to minimise your risk of MS, bowel, prostate and other cancers, heart disease, and a wide range of mood, joint and immune disorders - we don't yet know how much is needed to minimise those, because it's still an evolving field, and your professor from 20 years ago wouldn't have had the foggiest no matter how eminent he was at the time.

Interesting Post LadyI.

Adults make vitamin K in the liver (unless they have liver disease)

LLjkk: Professors can be wrong you know.
I know two and I'm not convinced that either of them know what they are on about. They do 'scientific studies' but don't seem to see the full picture.