to think that Rainbows and Brownies should be scrapped...

[Bardette]

...and all kids can just go to Beavers and Cubs.
In our area there is a long waiting list for Beavers. My son would like to join a colony but we have been told there it will be at least a term until a space will be available.
Girls can go to Rainbows or Beavers, but boys can only go to Beavers. As girls take up half the spaces in Beavers and all the spaces in Rainbows that means three times the number of places available to girls in local clubs.
Surely it would make more sense and be fairer to have two Beaver colonies?

Iamslave, have you had an email from a leader saying they've added you to the waiting list? If so you could try emailing them and asking for a copy of this terms program, as fatowl has said the activities are decided by the girls but it might give you some idea, ours seem to run in a circle as the older girls talk about stuff they've enjoyed and the younger ones think it sounds good so ask to do it

NoodleDoodleDoo That (your post at 21:21:12) is one way of looking at it,
OR
you could look at the same situation by saying maybe 'they were all silly and giggly, and only got 1/2 way up the wall and wouldn't challenge themselves' because they weren't used to being with the lads, and were treating them differently from their guiding friends.

My dd does her climbing, (to use your example) with her Scouts (well, Explorers now) and treats all her peers the same, as equal friends. She has no issues to do with if they are lads or girls, she gets on with climbing and challenging herself.

That's not to say there isn't a place for 'girl only' activities for some girls, just saying that's how I'd read that situation.

I agree with all the posters who say what a Guide or Scout group actually do varies enormously from group to group, and is mainly dictated by the skills, experience, enthusiasm, energy, and interests of the particular leaders of that particular group.

My dc are in Scouts, and I've volunteered with Scouts Association for 30 years now, but I know some excellent Brownie Packs, Guide Companies and Ranger Units, and I know some weaker Beaver Colonies, Cub Packs Scout Troops and Explorer Units too.

We should be doing all we can to support each other, not making it into some sort of competition.

I think if you want your kid to join any group run by volunteers you have to put your hand up and say that you will be one of those volunteers.

As we both work we have been selective about which clubs the kids can be in based on where and when we can be involved.

Bit cheeky to expect to just have your kid in a club and not be willing to help facilitate the group.

Broken - dammit, I want waves of peace and love and incense. tragically, I'm ex-military. The woodcraft folk would have a coronary if I appeared in the forest... I had a good friend at uni who ran a group. We both respectfully ignored each other's youth activity leanings.... I'd have quite happily led a woodcraft group, but I'd have to have hidden my sordid past before they'd let me anywhere near. I can pass for woo in firelight.

Jenny - yes, I can see that the presence of the other sex would have an effect on behaviour... I'm fascinated to see what happens when I get these gals to the jamboree. They have no issues with confidence and taking part to the best of their ability at the moment. We'll see how that works out ...

The woodcraft folk would have a coronary if I appeared in the forest...

In combat gear.

Fully loaded.

Op yabvu to want the girls only activities to be closed.

However I share your sentiment that scouting would perhaps be better as boy only - and I speak as a rainbow leader and mum of rainbow. It saddens me that my sons will not get the same experience as my daughters in a single sex environment that can focus entirely in their needs without fear of offending another's. My ds1 will not cope well in a mixed environment at the moment, although he is still too young so maybe a moot point right now.

Either way, as so many have said, scouting went mixed sex due to a recruitment crisis. I honestly don't believe it has worked out for the best having spoken to friends of mine who are scout leaders.but we can't change that.

What people can do however, is quit moaning and get off their backsides to volunteer to help run these groups.

They are all volunteer led and we put a lot of time and effort into ensuring a varied programme. Our waiting list is a reflection of how well we do. We currently run at 23 girls for our rainbow unit and have a waiting list. The next nearest has 4 and no waiting. Waiting lists exist because girls and boys, or their parents, want to join a specific group.

I agree with Morloth. Scouting and Guiding are run very cheaply and all by volunteers- they need involvement and if you send them you should be getting involved, even if you only help once a term.
OP would not have a problem if she became a leader- they would get a place.

I think it a great shame that Scouts took girls. There may have been a recruitment crisis in some areas- but not all and some were simply forced into it in the end. If there is an advantage in a girls only organisation the same applies to boys.

"If there is an advantage in a girls only organisation the same applies to boys."

There are many girls both in this country and worldwide who would not be allowed to join any club that was mixed sex. The reverse does not apply. I would rather my sons were mildly inconvenienced that thousands of girls were denied the opportunities that Guiding offers.

It maybe true that many boys would benefit from a boys only organisation.
I think there is a place for mixed activities and single sex. As I said before, no one organisation is responsible for providing all the different permutations of mixed/single sex. Guiding has chosen to provide a single sex activity for girls. Scouting, which is a separate organisation has chosen to provide a mixed activity. Both of these do a fantastic job. Neither needs to provide a boys only activity and do not have the volunteers to do so anyway. However, I'm sure there are boys who would like a boys own organisation, so quite simply someone needs to set it up.

Provision in different areas for different ages and sexes, as well as the length of waiting lists is determined by how many volunteers there are. Where people find there is nothing for their age/sex or the waiting list is 2 years, it is not due to Scouting/Guiding wishing it to be like that. They want everyone who would like to join to have access. The number of volunteers limits the no of groups and the size of them.

So theoretically, I probably agree that it would be good if there was a mixed options and a boys only and a girls only. However, I don't see it as the job of either of the 2 existing organisations to provide all the options, or a failing on their part that a boys only option is not available. It would be great if there were enough people who wanted to run and volunteer for youth work to create a new nationwide organisation for boys.....but it seems that there aren't. And until there are, the situation will remain as it is.
Personally, I still think we should be more willing to recognise the fantastic stuff which IS being provided. My children get 1.5 hours of entertainment on a weekly basis for £2 each, plus numerous weekend events too. The people giving up hours of their time are all volunteers. I am extremely grateful. And I think that regardless of whether our children are on a waiting list, in the organisations, or too old for them, we can acknowledge the great work happening. So THANKYOU to all of you Brown Owls, Akelas, and numerous other volunteers. Despite the moaning, many people REALLY appreciate what you do.

delphin

Appreciate what you are saying but in our village there is a scout group which doesn't accept girls,

So does anyone know if scouting HAD to accept girls or was it left up to the individual packs

Oh sorry

And I absolutely agree with everyone who says it's up to individual leaders what activities they offer

When 1st Rufus had male leaders they did outdoors stuff from march til October, now there are female leaders hey do lots of fab stuff but it is kept a bit closer home

Rufus they do have to accept girls, but some leaders are difficult about it. The DC may have decided to let it slide for an otherwise great leader in an area where there is a shortage of spaces.

Thanks mines

It's not such a good troup but it is firmly attached to the local church whereas the 1st one certainly hasn't been in the last 15 years at least

Maybe that's why

If they accept girls they have to provide female leaders, seperate toilets etc. if they don't want girls I expect they can say they can't provide it.
My group is go ahead, active and adventurous- therefore they moved with the times.

delphin

I know it doesn't matter but weirdly 2nd Rufus had a female leader (male leaders) and refused girls and 1st Rufus had male leaders (female helpers) and did accept girls

I understand your points though

As an aside, do you keep your place on the waiting list forever? DD has been on one for 2 years 2 months.

Scouts do have to accept girls. And they do have to have separate loos.

But no need for female leaders.

My ds's troop have female Explorers step in for camps, but there are no female leaders.

Girls have been allowed to join any section of Scouts that wished to be co-ed, (and there was a group in the next section up that could take them) since 1990.
However, since 2007, every section of every group has to accept girls.

They don't need a female Leader.

If the hut has a single toilet - just the same as in your house - then members of either sex can use it.

Rufus - the group are not allowed to 'not accept' girls - if you know someone who wishes to join and are told no, then they can complain to the District, County, or National HQ (if they can't find the information locally).

ChocolateWombat - Excellent post, Thank you.

Icelandicsaga - it varies, group to group. Some have policies such as first on the list gets the place as soon as there is a space once they are old enough, others do things like prioritise siblings.

If I'd been on a list that long, I'd be inclined to just check in now and then though. Is your dc now old enough to be n a Section ?

Iamslave, have you had an email from a leader saying they've added you to the waiting list?

No she asked if she should I asked for more details on the list and never heard back, after two emails.

Mouldypineapple
I must have offended the lady I asked because i never heard back, I dared to ask how long her waiting list was she just orginally gave me a vague reply that my DD wouldnt start at 7....

I can't imagine you've offended her, but the email to her or her reply perhaps just might have got lost. Why don't you email again and ask? Or call your local County office to ask? Or go to enquiryym.girlguiding.org.uk/ to add your daughter on to other waiting lists?

Thanks back

I may be maligning them, it was a few years ago that I absolutely know for a fact that they were not accepting girls

It may have changed, I might check though just to be nosy