to think you'll miss your GP when they're gone...

[macdoodle]

I have been roundly criticised on other thread for trying to express this. And whilst I admit that highjacking someone's thread may not have been the best way to do it, the crisis in NHS GP is very real.
I have bee around MN for a very long time now, and sometimes the anti GP sentiment is astounding and utterly depressing.
So read this...he is not a GP (I am), but this article absolutely sums up the current problems and morale in GP at the moment.
I have been a doctor for 20 years and a GP (or in GP training) since 1999 and can honestly say that NHS GP is in very real danger of being gone very soon.
For those who continually slate GP's , please tell me what your better suggestion is, because I trained in a country with no national GP service, and it really isnt better in any way.
www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/03/from-adrian_hilton-the-looming-manpower-crisis-in-gp-land.html

'I trust your salary and pension are beyond that which most of us dream of.'
Most of us have not been top of pretty much every subject at school, spent 5-6 years at university, worked an insane number of hours while training etc etc etc.

naturalbaby I don't want this to sound goady, but I never actually get why people go on about doctors training so hard, being so clever, putting so many years in at uni - and then working such long, stressful hours.

It seems to me pretty much par for the course in a high-stress professional job. I mean, I really doubt comparable professions like barristers, city financiers, etc have such different levels of training/ intelligence/ dedication - or easier hours.

I am an academic and I'm having a lazy couple of weeks due to early pregnancy tiredness. However, prior to being pregnant I have routinely worked 7-day weeks for months on end (yes, really) and evenings and weekends are the norm. I probably spent as long at university and training as the OP (norm is c. 8 years and then anywhere from 2-5 years postdoc). I earn £36,000 a year and I'm grateful for such a good salary.

It is what I signed up for when I entered this profession and whilst it's tough, I can't really complain.

There must be a massive difference in practices. I just don't recognise any of the 'waiting for weeks, rude rushed Drs.' I've been packed off straight to A&E, home visits, speedy referrals, patient hand holding when my problems were psychological, excellent maternity care x3...
I've always had exceptional treatment from all GPs, over several practices and rarely not been seen on the day.
I wonder whether it's a big city thing? All the practices I've been to have walk in in the mornings.
I would definitely miss the excellent service I've always had- even more so having experienced ok, pay as you visit care overseas.

Too hit or miss in my opinion, in terms of correct diagnosis etc. I couldn't find a private GP in my area, but the difference is startling. That's what it should've like for all

Didn't realise it was poorly paid occupation also! Poor OP

.......And I will say again in the interests of balance that I have nothing against GPs. Mine is excellent. Same-day appointment when I thought I was having a miscarriage, available 'sit and wait' appts every day, fantastic phlebotomist and nurse, lovely receptionists.

Should be

Having moved around a lot i have had quite a few GP's. I have had two stand-out ones though. Both from the same practise. Dr N died very suddenly less than a year after retiring. He was the one who came out when ds2 was fitting aged two weeks. He was actually making a social call and got a call on the way to say we had an emergency. He told us not to wait for an ambulance and to just go to the hospital NOW!!!
The second lovely GP emigrated to Canada and I really miss him. He wrote to the hospital for me to ask if any of ds1's organs had been retained during the organ scandal. He was amazing with ds2. When we heard he was leaving i had a pencil drawing done of the surgery and brought a Dr Bear for ds2 to give him. The surgery gave us a five minute appointment so ds2 could say goodbye and hand over his gift. (Ds2 is autistic). Lovely GP stood up and said "Can i give your Mum a hug please?" DS2 said "Group Hug peasssse!" and we all hugged together and i left the surgery in tears!

OP you taking the problem the wrong way around. It's not an issue if whether we need gps or not. We do need them.
But we need a different system because this one isn't working. There are too many people being misdiagnosed, given the wrong medication because GP just don't have the time.
You know that, I know that but for patients not getting treated aprropriately it us a huge issue that needs to be addressed.

For one I think that most GPs are good but are working within constrains that make their work impossible.
I personally like the French system where all go are private but you get reimbursed for the cost of the treatment. Go chose to either invoice their patients for that value (so you pay nothing at all) it to charge more. As a patient you chose your GP which means you don't gave to see the crap one because that's the only one who can see you on that day.

But I have to say my heart sinks when someone nearly looses his leg because a GP, a nurse and a physio all missed an obvious DVT and none if them had time to look at his legs. Or when an elderly lady is given medication to raise and lower her blood pressure at the same time. Because GP didn't gave timbers check all the medication she was on.
Nit enough time, pressure is, IMHO, putting people's life at risk. And they shouldn't be acceptable.

GPs partially suffer from the bad news travels fast. We are quick to moan about problems but if it's ok or great service we don't say anything. This skews the feedback. I think they also see a lot if mundane & less clear cut problems so it can be hard to give the answers people want immediately compared with people who see my specialist Cardiologist DH who usually give glowing feedback as they are just happy to be alive.
My old GP was fab (she had common sense) but she retired just before we moved and the practice struggled to replace her. We've moved areas and I've only been a few times to the new GPs as I can do my repeat scripts online - it is a vastly oversubscribed practice though & I know they struggle to serve the ever growing village however I'm yet to have a bad experience.

My GP surgery is great. I can always get a same day appointment and am always accommodated easily for follow up appointments. We are having trouble TTC at the moment and both of the GPs I have seen have been incredibly proactive in arranging tests and getting us referred, before they technically should have.

I think my GP is fab, and I generally think the staff and other GPs at our surgery are very helpful

But they are very, very busy...it's almost mission impossible getting an appointment and prescriptions take a full week to turn around

I would say that 1/2 years ago that wasn't the case so I don't know what has made the difference

Should say that it's a village surgery on the south coast

I haven't managed to read the whole thread or the link. But I read the OP.

Just to say, my GP practice is good and specifically my GP is fab! I always get an appointment when I need one (on same day if needed) and usually with the Dr I am registered with. I've been here (this area) less than 2 years but my GP knows my kids names! She's great. She has often given out antibiotics or a orescripti, but not every time.

why would clever people choose to be GPs if it is so awful?
they dont
they go off and do something else instead
and we have less GPs

thats why we should want it to be a job worth doing. because otherwise they will not start the training, they will do something else instead

Well I'll miss my GP.

I'm also a doctor but work in the hospital. I can assure you that I have never seen morale amongst GPs lower. All of my friends that we were wildly jealous of 8 or so years ago are now working much much longer hours, for comparatively less money and are amazingly stressed.

Jeremy Hunt announcing that missed /delayed cancer diagnoses should result in public humiliation was quite frankly the final straw for many.

I agree, we should, look into delayed diagnosis but lots and lots of people present with vaguely suspicious symptoms. The NHS could quite frankly not cope with investigating them all. The vast majority of the time GPs call it right and investigate the right people.

In the USA (I am so fucking sick of hearing how amazing the USA is) those with money get investigated and those with money don't get much care at all. If the NHS vanishes my family will be fine but the vast majority of patients I look after will be totally and utterly buggered.

Oh and for the record I've lived with various people doing very high pressured city jobs - they have all commented that the hours I worked during training (many of my early jobs were shared with GP trainees) would have broken them - on paper we often work less but the constant chopping and changing between night and day and one job and another (junior doctors typically rotate every 6 months) and the inability to plan holiday makes it far far worse.

The conservative party are really spinning a great line about how shit the NHS is. Because believe me it is going to be a whole lot worse once it has gone.

GPs in the NHS get between £5-£6 per patient per month, compare that to the pp who was paying £30 per month and you'll see why the private gp has more time to spend with each patient.

I think the op has a very good point, I expect that a charge to see a gp (and if the 24/7 care comes on you'll never see the same gp twice) will be introduced on the necy 5-10 years and I am worried about those who won't be able to afford insurance because I think they will have to rely on charities I a&e for their health care. So yes a lot of people will miss the gp service when it's gone.

I work in the nhs but I'm not a gp

Apologies for the spelling -on my phone.

Also gasman put it far more eloquently than me

yes, the Jeremy Hunt comment about naming and shaming was disgraceful

it is vilification of teachers all over again

if i were a GP i would emigrate

Here in Jersey we pay to see the Doctors. Over 30 a time.
so your post should be more 'Appreciate the GP you have and is free'

I pay $20 each time I see the doctor (11.66). I pay $200 a month out of my paycheck for my insurance. That's for a family of five, medical, dental, and vision coverage.

Seeing a GP in England isn't really free isit? I mean, there may be no out of pocket at the point of service, but people pay a fair amount in taxes to support the NHS, don't they?

Eloquent. Ha Ha. It is full of typos.

However I hope the passion comes across - GPs do a difficult, thankless task and there is escalating demand, an ageing population who have masses of co-morbidity and reduced funding.

It really is not a time to be trying to wipe them out. I strongly disagree that salaried GPs employed by a multinational will be able to deliver such a strong service. My Gran who died recently was 94. I don't think a week went by in her last year of life when she didn't get a home visit. She is not alone. I don't think she needed all of the home visits she got but the relatively untrained home care team would phone the GP. Anytime I tried to intervene and suggest home treatment type remedies e.g. over the counter senna for consitpation instead they got very twitchy and started muttering about neglecting vulnerable adults.

Most old folk don't have a medical granddaughter on tap anyway - maybe this is a case of untrained staff actually destabilising the NHS!

Many practices are only surviving because they are owned by the GPs who work in them - private companies are struggling to make inner city GP work in many cities.

I trust your salary and pension are beyond that which most of us dream of.

You think? I don't really have any frame of reference, but I would assume an NHS doctor's salary is not all that great.

gasman I have every respect for drs and I'm not slagging off the profession. I do wonder how long junior drs do those hours for, though.

Anyhow, still: what are patients meant to do?

The NHS is not as good as many healthcare systems but it is obviously fantastic compared to most. Never understand why people bring up the States. It is setting the bar pretty low. So yes, we would all miss it. We all know that.

But this thread is very much "one day you'll be sorry" and I don't think it is directed at the right people. Jeremy Hunt is not reading this.

Not going to click on a link that begins "Conservative home"!

My GP practice is excellent. There are a couple of duff GPS, but three or four who are really really good. I regard that (based on past experience) as pretty impressive.

Mind you, I was a bit shocked that one of the duff ones, a couple of months ago, tried to impress upon me the importance of checking my breasts once a month. Even I knew that this stopped being standard advice 10 years ago, so not sure why he didn't know it.

I wouldn't miss my current GP because he's an absolute, out and out w*er. But generally, yes, we're lucky to have the service. DH comes from somewhere where GP service is not free (even for children), although hospital treatment is. He still finds it hard to believe that we can just go and see someone without budgeting for it.