Effectively asked to leave cafe..AIBU or was he?

[Hoptoit]

Today my husband, 3 yo and 2 yo twins went for lunch in a small local cafe that we go to maybe once a month. It's quite informal and I took the pile of kids toys as an indication that families were welcome. The twins were fractious and hungry, and having a bit of a shout, but we ordered food and waited for them to settle. There were about two other tables of people in there at this time.

After we ordered the owner made a comment along the lines of 'give it a rest now kids' which I took as a joke, then about 5 minutes later, after the children's food had arrived, but before my husbands and mine had he came over and said,'your going to have to stop them making this noise, they are disturbing everyone else lunch. It's just not on.'

So, my husband ate a bit of his lunch then took the twins to sit in the car while I picked at mine. Just after he left a lovely lady on the table next to us came over to say she'd heard what he said and was disgusted and wanted me to know she hadn't complained to him about the noise, and that she planned to say something to him when she left. I'm ashamed to say that I was so embarrassed and stressed that this made me cry.

As I went to pay my £30 bill for the mostly uneaten food, he asked me if everything had been ok?! I said I was mortified by what he'd said. He got all chippy and defensive about it so I didn't say anymore.

It has ruined what should have been a lovely day. Twins aren't easy and I am very conscious if not impacting on other people negatively, but this place gives the impression of being child friendly, and we weren't letting them run wild or anything like that.

So what do you think, was he out of line or should we have left sooner? It was a terrible mortifying experience.

I think the kind of person who can read a thread where most people are saying YABU and only notice the ones saying YANBU is the kind of person who could convince themselves that 3 screaming children weren't making much noise!

I do think that it's easy to forget what it's like, and if we are talking of condescension, the number of (unsolicited) parenting tips I've received is worth commenting on.

My apologies if I offended anyone with the reference to fine-dining. I wasn't reallyn commenting on price rather that it was not night/ a more adult setting. I wouldn't even take them to this cafe at night.

Thanks for your comments, but having read them all and considered this from many different perspectives I do think he was being an arse.

I don't think a bit of pre lunch shouting is acceptable, I have an 18 month old, we went out to eat dinner tonight, ds is not inclined to sit in a highchair for any length of time so we have an action plan, we ask for bread when we arrive asap, that takes 5/10 minutes for him to eat whilst we order, then me and dp take it in turns to walk up and down the pavement with ds, then dinner comes, ds eats dinner until he says he's finished he then watches Mr tumble without sound on my telephone whilst we finish dinner.

I'd never forcibly hold him on my knee whilst he shouted and screamed, yabvu to the other people there, why not just get a takeaway or picnic and eat in the park or at home?

Yanbu , how rude I would have left straight away and refused to pay.

People haven't forgotton what it's like. They simply think your wrong.

DS is 4. My nephew is just turned 3. I know how tough it is but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to leave them shouting and expect others to put up with with

You think he was an arse- you think you were reasonable. Why waste yours and our time posing the question

"I think the kind of person who can read a thread where most people are saying YABU and only notice the ones saying YANBU is the kind of person who could convince themselves that 3 screaming children weren't making much noise!"

Agree with you Ziggy.

I'm actually starting to feel sorry for the cafe owner!

with all due respect OP, the slightly aggressive / defensive attitude displayed in your posts here explains a bit bout why things happened the way they did at the cafe. You seem unwilling to even consider that perhaps you were in the wrong.

You seem to think because you keep the business afloat with your once monthly visit you are above conforming with societal norms

I was about to post what Worra just has.

Children coming in and being hungry and crying is one thing but if they clearly aren't settling when the food is there, I do think it isn't unreasonable to point out that this is unfair to others.

Yep, a bit of pre-lunch screaming and shouting

. This would have bothered me a lot if I was another customer. Even if it was a child friendly place little kids screaming and shouting is very irritating. I think it's their high pitched voices but it goes right through me. It sounds like the owner did try to gently warn you to keep the noise down by 'asking' the kids to give it a rest Sorry but I think YWBU.

Btw ,I have four kids and I would have found my own kids irritating if they dared to scream and shout in a cafe. Obviously, there were times when they were loud and irritating in public but I would have been more careful in a place like a cafe or restaurant where people come to sit down and relax. If it were a soft play place then I would have left them to it.

When I go out for a coffee with dp and my kids nowadays, my kids are no problem in the slightest: they all sit and read, while we chat. Its great :-) (they are 7,9 and 11. Payoff time).

I would really like to categorically state that kid noise, in the day, simply doesn't bother me.

If a kid is screaming, and the parents are at least trying to make it stop, jesus, I feel for that family. I remember what it was like. I don't get all entitled about my right to clear airwaves so as to enjoy my ham and cheese toastie.

And if it did, I'd go somewhere else.

I honestly don't get the big deal.

OP: AIBU?
Majority: Yes.
OP: Oh no I'm not, I know I'm not!

If you're so convinced you're right, why ask?!

Yabu.
Having a prelunch scream No, doesn't sound like you were managing them. They probably were disturbing everybodyelse. Just because it was child friendly doesn't mean its ok to disrupt everybody else.
It sounds like the owner did give you plenty of warnings.

Uk is not anti children at all. Iv worked in and been in lovely cafe and coffee shops where little ones have been welcomed. Their parents never let them have a prelunch scream thankfully.

When my husband was recovering from a brain tumour the slightest bit of kid noise went right through him and caused him immense pain. Is the kids right to squawk ever so charmingly more important than the comfort of others?

Well we weren't there but imo screaming and shouting is not ok and mine would have been taken outside had they done that.

General chatter etc fine, screaming and shouting not ok. It sounds wanky but mmine are told to use an inside voice.

We took the madthings out for lunch today, our youngest is three and there was no screaming and shouting, she got a bit fed up waiting for the main course (we had three courses) but I got out some small toys and a book and then at the end when others were still eating I took her outside so she could run around.

A "bit of pre lunch screaming and shouting" is not acceptable in a cafe imo and I'm suprised that anyone thinks it is. I see lots of kids in cafes but not kids who are screaming or shouting.

I have a 2 year old and know exactly what they can be like and I STILL think that you should have taken them out. My little boy has been like this before and I took him home. YABU.

I am assuming that if the manager had approached the OP and said "there's someone here who really cannot deal with kid noise for medical reasons" then her reaction would have been different.

I'm sorry to hear about your husband, sharon and I hope he is better, but I don't think kids need to be quiet at all times in order that those who, for medical reasons, need quiet, aren't disturbed. I'd also guess that you didn't, at this time, frequent places that signaled themselves as kid-friendly, which is the real issue here, I think.

Tbh I wouldn't describe this as 'mortifying'. At worst, it's inconvenient. But my opinion really is that, children shouldn't be allowed to spoil the dining experience of others. Yes, I have there noisy children but would choose to take them for a walk round the block if they were creating a racket in a restaurant!

If you are sure that you weren't being unreasonable then no need to start an AIBU thread. I also have missed the bit where he asked you to leave.

I'm sorry you have had a tough day though, I can't begin to understand the challenge of having twins. People should be more understanding and supportive in general in the community- if it was me I would be doing my best to help out by perhaps chatting to the kids or giving them colouring in etc. I work in customer service and if I was to be so damning as this man appeared to be I would be for the high jump as we pride ourselves on being child friendly. Obviously, that doesn't mean that people can take the piss but you seem sure your kids weren't being out of control.

*three, not there

I don't think you have to have medical reasons to find screaming and shouting in a cafe a disturbance.

Letting your children sit and scream sounds like some sort of parenting style, I think parents need to remember that whatever parenting style they have be it letting your child scream or letting your child wonder about touching everything or letting your child wee/poo on the floor you have to conform when in a cafe or restaurant and do what the majority of people would do which is to take the child away from the situation or not attempt something which at least half the family .hates (I can't imagine the adults have much fun either)

Well said sirzy