Effectively asked to leave cafe..AIBU or was he?

[Hoptoit]

Today my husband, 3 yo and 2 yo twins went for lunch in a small local cafe that we go to maybe once a month. It's quite informal and I took the pile of kids toys as an indication that families were welcome. The twins were fractious and hungry, and having a bit of a shout, but we ordered food and waited for them to settle. There were about two other tables of people in there at this time.

After we ordered the owner made a comment along the lines of 'give it a rest now kids' which I took as a joke, then about 5 minutes later, after the children's food had arrived, but before my husbands and mine had he came over and said,'your going to have to stop them making this noise, they are disturbing everyone else lunch. It's just not on.'

So, my husband ate a bit of his lunch then took the twins to sit in the car while I picked at mine. Just after he left a lovely lady on the table next to us came over to say she'd heard what he said and was disgusted and wanted me to know she hadn't complained to him about the noise, and that she planned to say something to him when she left. I'm ashamed to say that I was so embarrassed and stressed that this made me cry.

As I went to pay my £30 bill for the mostly uneaten food, he asked me if everything had been ok?! I said I was mortified by what he'd said. He got all chippy and defensive about it so I didn't say anymore.

It has ruined what should have been a lovely day. Twins aren't easy and I am very conscious if not impacting on other people negatively, but this place gives the impression of being child friendly, and we weren't letting them run wild or anything like that.

So what do you think, was he out of line or should we have left sooner? It was a terrible mortifying experience.

I too don't get "the uk are anti kids". I've never experienced that with my two. Though mine have always behaved beautifully when out. Well, dd1 once began to act rather boisterously in a cafe when she was 3. I took her outside straight away until she calmed down and explained we don't behave like that. I've never had to do it again.

For what it's worth op I don't think Ywbu

and I wouldn't have complained about you but only because I have been near your situation having had a 2 and 3 year old at the same time (only one 2 year old mind) and it can be stressful and a handful at times!

He could have been more polite, or tbh just kept his trap shut

The guy was rude. If it's just an informal cafe with kids toys etc then a bit of noise is to be expected. It doesn't sound like they were screaming for hours, just some whining until they got their food which is standard stuff.

Sounds like a grumpy fecker! Just take your business elsewhere next time.

I have to be honest, when mine were 2 and 3 I just gave up going in cafes for a nice lunch for about a year, they never wanted to stay in their seats, would scream if hungry/tired and it all just never seemed relaxing to me, let alone anyone else, even if they were reasonably well-behaved.

3 tinies in a small cafe on a Sat lunchtime probably was a bit of an ask- however the owner should have let you know before he took your food order if there was an issue.

I think what people mean by the UK not being child-friendly, here the cafe had toys but actually the children weren't really welcome. Non-Uk children also scream and get tired, but often in Med cultures, there's only one child per huge amount of grandparents/parents, people are much more hands on and will take them out/walk around with them, and even waiters and staff will engage with the children. Hence they get socialized into eating out. But it is untrue that children in other countries never cry- and in some they would also be smacked hard if they made a sound, not something I would want to see when I was having a nice lunch out.

I've never found the uk anti children. We have always taken dd out to eat since she was a tiny baby and never had any problems at all, from small cafés and pubs to high end restaurants.

I wouldn't have had her inside screaming and making a lot of noise though. We always took dd outside if she started playing up and becoming fractious and noisy.

It really does depend on how much noise they were making. Chatter and maybe the odd cry - fine. Screaming and shouting isn't really on, it's not fair on the other diners. Even in a family friendly cafe.

pumpkin not an auto correct and means the same as acting the goat. Maybe its just an Irish saying, everyone I know says it .

A bit of noise may be to be expected. But "pre lunch shouting" or any other sort of shouting IMO isn't acceptable in a cafe, child friendly or not.

I don't have kids and noisy ones can really spoil a meal out. This has happened to us on a few occasions. It is annoying, we are out for a meal and some children are really disruptive.

We pay for our meal but are unable to enjoy it, thanks to other peoples offspring.

Most people do try to quieten them down and it's usually because they are hungry. I would wait for the parents to make some effort to quiet them before making a comment.

Parents usually zone out but strangers can't, especially those unused to small children. I think many parents forget this

You can't stop small hungry toddlers shouting.
They aren't robots.

People are so impatient and unsympathetic.

Just babies sitting on laps being a bit noisy.

But 2yo twins aren't babies, nor do they sound like babies. We have 16mo twins in our family and they can sound like banshees when they are acting up. I would certainly be mindful of inflicting them on anybody in a cafe as it is disruptive - I would have taken them out of the cafe after the owner made the first comment and not 'waited until they settled down'.

a bit of pre lunch screaming and shouting sounds as though it could potentially have disturbed other people's meals. Why didn't one of you take them outside until the food came?

Think he was being rather harsh. I was always prepared to put up with noise/screaming from kids in cafes during the day, but without a doubt would have complained if I had gone out to a restaurant at night and encountered other peoples screaming kids whilst mine were safely asleep with a babysitter.

Yep, a bit of pre-lunch screaming and shouting, but this was at lunch, it's not fine-dining, and don't take my order if it's a problem for you

I had some sympathy for you after reading your first post.
The cafe didn't handle it well, but your attitude is out of order. Some people can't afford "fine-dining", why should they have to listen to " pre-lunch screaming and shouting" because of their budget.

Cats

The op was exactly being sympathetic to other diners whilst her children were screaming "a bit" was she? They should have been taken outside until the food arrived.

a bit of pre-lunch screaming and shouting....fractious kids

Tricky, and agree with those who say it is hard to judge without being there. How often do you eat there with your dc?

I think families with young children are accustomed to a certain amount of chaos and noise. They become immune to it because it is part of their everyday life....all day. But that doesn't mean everyone is used to it, or enjoys it.

I am a fairly tolerant person, but I recently went to a casual restaurant where the parents at the next table seemed oblivious to the uproar caused by their young children. It was very hard for anyone else in the small space to carry on a conversation. Their children's interfered with everyone else in the restaurant because the noise/chaos was impossible to ignore.

It could be that the owner was out of line, and too quick to speak to you. But, it is worth considering the other side of the coin too. Maybe your dc were too loud/out of control for that setting and you should have handled it differently. it is easy to be offended - and you may be justified. But you may also need to look in the mirror and consider whether what went on was too much for that setting.

You can't stop small hungry toddlers shouting.

Yes you can. And if you can't THAT is when you take them out for a bit if needed. You don't leave them in the place shouting.

Contrary to popular belief not everyone wants to listen to other people's children shouting.

Well, I thought I was a disciplinarian (my husbands even worse), but clearly we have a way to go before our children are well behaved enough to go out in public! I'll assume that perhaps many of your children are older and you have forgotten how unpredictable they can be at this age!

Thank you for your responses, you have helped me clarify that he was being unreasonable; this is an informal cafe, my children were being just that and it was being actively managed by us. What he said had no other purpose than to make us feel uncomfortable, yet he was too cowardly to actually ask us to go.

The lady who came to talk to me was not being duplicitous, and I can't understand why anyone would assume that. Anyway if that was the case why would she have told me she intended to complain on my behalf? In fact, her response alone should have been enough I guess to make me see that this was his issue not mine.

On the flip side, yesterday I sat with a friend in the busy cafe of a hotel spa eating lunch while a baby screamed it's head off at another table. I smiled at the mother in an undestanding way, and after today I'm especially glad I did!

I dunno. Nowadays, I am more often than not in cafes without my kids, often with just me and dp.

I'd say, kids shout and they make noise and they are unpredictable with it. They do it a lot when tired.

If I've paid for a babysitter to go somewhere nice, or have a headache, or whatever, and fancy a kidfree meal I don't go somewhere there is likely to be kids . For example, I don't go somewhere with kid toys.

But if I'm in a cafe and some poor mum is there with three kids under 4 (been there!) and they start acting up-well, I don't get all precious and entitled about it, fgs.

If I need peace and quiet THAT much, I stay home.

Think you had to be there but kids screaming or shouting is a no no for me when out and about unless a play area or park.

AIBU

YES!

No I'm not, you're all wrong

Why bother asking

The thing is, if they were still making a racket 5 minutes after their food arrived, it wasn't just a bit of pre-lunch screaming and shouting, was it?

If their food didn't distract them and quieten them down, I doubt anything would have.

I'm not sure that was what people have actually said in the main, op.

Thanks Sigyn; that sums up how I feel really too, and it's the basis on which I'd judge other peoples children as well as my own!

Take your business elsewhere. We struggled to find anywhere that would tolerate my severely autistic son, especially when he was younger, when we eventually found somewhere we went back & back & back & back & recommended it to everyone (even naice normal families) & I tweet about them & continue to spend my money there while my friends spend their money there.

Vote with your feet & give your custom for years to come to somewhere nicer.