WIBU and if so, what would you have done (if anything) - baby on the bus

[ChrissyKochanski]

I am genuinely interested as I acted out of impulse and adrenaline. I would also like to say I am the least confrontational person in the world so what happened is very unusual for me.

I got on a bus after work and a toddler, perhaps 18mo to 2yrs, was in a pram in the pram space. His mother was sat in the first two seats in front of the pram and the baby was facing her. When I got on, the boy was crying. The mother had big headphones on and wasn't looking at the baby and generally ignoring him. 5 minutes into my journey and the toddler was still crying but the distressed thrashing, face going red, struggling to breath, going to be sick crying. The mother opposite him had not acknowledged him, talked to him, touched him, tried to calm him down, nothing . I even wondered if she was with him.

A woman sat behind the mother tapped the mother on the shoulder and asked if he was her baby. The mother said he was and do the woman said "he looks a bit distressed to me". The mother just said "well he's tired" and that was that. The mother went back to ignoring him. The woman behind the mother kept muttering and saying it wasn't right.

Another 5 mins later and the bout is thrashing around bent double over in his pram, still crying and struggling to breath. I admit I got angry and upset at seeing him so got up and said to the mother that I didn't want to sound accusatory but I had been on the bus for 10 minutes and had not seen her interact with her son once and he was now struggling to breathe. Her response was that if she picks him up he headbutts her. I said my daughter used to do that but children still need interaction.

Then the bus driver turns round and says "could everyone (meaning me) sit down. He'll be off the bus soon, he's been to the hospital and is teething and has a cold. I can raise my own soon without any help but I'm driving you people home". The woman behind the mother shouts to him asking why the mother can't look after him.

I sat down then and luckily got off at the next stop. I realise the mother may have had a hard day, she could have PND but all I could see is the poor boy screaming and looking round for anyone. She said not one word to him the entire time.

Was I being a busy body and should have kept my nose out?

I would like to point out that the direction the bus came from was not from the hospital. Also I'm really angry at the father/bus driver's insinuation that we were upset about the crying as I would hate for anyone to think that. We've all been there.

What would you have done?

As well as the fact that nowhere does the op say tantrum. I think people would rather believe that it was poor behaviour from the child and ignore it than face the fact he might have been truly distressed and being ignored. Sometimes people don't want to see.

sissy true but it's a shame that most people are keener to assume bad behaviour from baby and nosiness from OP.

Tantruming does look like crying/ distress though.

I would have asked 'is he alright?' rather open with a criticism but the trouble is, it all means the same in reality if the mum really is doing her best and there's a reason for the ignoring...

I think this has touched a nerve for many people but really we don't know what was going on.

rabbit what if it was genuine distress from being in some sort of discomfort? then would OP have been right to interfere?

How do you engage someone in conversation who is intent in wearing headphones?

Well all these 'if's' now it is too late.

Imo you could find out easier if you did what an earlier poster suggested: pull some faces, talk to him etc. Most children respond better to strangers. perhaps he would start laughing. If he still seemed very upset maybe he was in pain or hungry. Or maybe not. How do we suppose to know.

Vampyre I think we all project to some extent in this kind of thread. I like to think I'm a good mum and don't neglect my kids, but child number 2 is prone to tantrumming (even at 7 years old he can still really push those buttons), and I have been in the position of the "neglectful parent".

The fact is we just don't know and immediately accusing a mum of bad parenting and being so judgemental is of no benefit to either parent or child.

We can all throw stones, but is isn't necessarily helpful.

I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking 'maybe ignoring him settles him down quicker'. If DD is overtired and screaming, the worst thing I can do is give her any kind of attention or attempt to cuddle her - I feel awful but it's the best thing to do. That being said, if this was the case, the mother could've assured other passengers with a 'sorry, if I give him attention, he'll kick off more' and the headphones were unnecessary.
I'm just hoping it was just a tantrum and not a child truly being ignored when he wanted comforting

OP would never know that. She would be guessing.
Sometimes I think MNers want to see neglect and suffering everywhere so they can feel superior like the better parents.

Sometimes its ok to say that your not everybodys parent and it just isn't always your place.

sissy dd1 was an absolute nightmare for tantrums, more than once she had me in tears in the middle of town, lovely old ladies telling her to 'be good for your mum' and yes, probably loads of judgemental stares. I wouldn't have been comfortable sitting there with headphones on and completely ignoring though.

and even if I was, it seems more likely in this case that the baby had valid reasons for being in distress, given that his dad had said he was teething and had a cold..

I personally don't consider myself superior as far as parenting goes. I'm the first to admit I've fucking it up many a time and have probably been judged for doing so.

I think the headphones were to drown out the tuts of the passers by.

This all sounds a bit strange to me OP. I was kind of with you to the point where you said I admit I got angry and upset at seeing him so got up and said to the mother that I didn't want to sound accusatory but Do people actually speak to one another this way

End of the day you tried to point out the error of her ways. It didn't work and she continued to parent her child as she saw fit. If you feel so strongly then call SS give them the number of the bus and the time you were on it (so they can trace the driver because that was a stroke of luck wasn't it) and inform them you are concerned for a child and a possible neglectful situation.

My little darling used to hold her breath whist having a tantrum and also make herself cough sometimes until she was sick. The advice from the professional was to keep a watchful eye but not engage. This phase which I had put up with for a stressful 6 weeks stopped after a few times of me ignoring the behaviour.

ha at "I've fucking it up" probably because I'm so darrrn stupid.

Vampyre if you had a child who you knew got more distressed when you picked them up and cuddled them, even if it was from tiredness, illness etc rather than a tantrum, what would you do? Because I don't believe that you would pick them up and cuddle them in that situation just so that a bus full of strangers wouldn't judge you.

We don't know that that is the situation but neither did the op of the people on the bus know that it wasn't. It's probably better to withhold judgement about how neglectful her parenting is if you don't know the full facts.

I HAVE had a child like that and didn't want HER to think I didn't care. But yes, I would be overcome with anxiety in a situation like this and would probably try harder to prove that I wasn't neglectful. actually, I'd probably have a meltdown myself and get off the bloody bus.

YWNBU.

As a mother of 4 including a current tantrummer (so it's not that I'm so old that I don't remember what it was like), I cannot imagine ignoring my child or any one else's when they are in state like that whether in public or not.

I really don't get this 'leave them to it or it'll make them worse' crap. Laziness IMO and she was obviously used to doing it hence the headphones, poor kid . No wonder he was in such distress. I mean would you really drown out the distress of your very young child with headphones? Tantrumming or not, he was in great distress.

They need to be comforted even if that means in a bear grip while speaking gently to them so they can't thrash around and kick you in the face. They cannot regulate their emotions at that age and need all the comfort they can get.

Fucking shit parents. I would have said a lot more and risked a pasting I think.

So you are saying I'm a lazy parent Drop? Oh and a shit parent.

Nice real nice.

I'm a shit parent too Dotty see, I prefer my DD to calm herself down which takes around 10 minutes, rather than getting her in a bear hug and prolonging the torture for around half an hour. So very shit and proud.
I don't know what's best for my child, clearly

dotty and urethra but presumably this is when you are certain that it's just a tantrum and not when your children might be in pain after being at hospital/teething/full of cold?

@ Uretha

Tbh I will hide this thread as I m suspicious and do not wish to engage in a angry debate because I think that's what the OP wants.

I wear my shit lazy badge with pride.

It's when she is overtired, usually. My response was to Dropping saying it's lazy and shit parenting to ignore the child in any case.
I'm not disregarding that she could've been neglecting to acknowledge the child's distress. I find the headphones horrible, she could've been more attentive but we don't know the full situation.
I just don't like it being insinuated that I'm a shit parent because I know what's best for my child.

Me too Dotty, me too.

If I tried to bear grip my dd mid tantrum she would completely lose it, even with me speaking gently to her (FFS). Touching her in any way completely enrages her.

Personally I'm not a fan of enforced physical restraint of a small child by an adult, even with whispered sweet nothings. I prefer to ensure that my child is not in any danger and let her experience her emotions so that in time she can learn to control them herself rather than me forcibly restrain her to try to stop her.

I don't think I'm a lazy or shit parent because I don't believe in using my much larger body to physically restrain a small child....