To think that Saville was NEVER a "Much loved family favourite"???

[MrsWinnibago]

Sorry to start a thread about this sick, awful animal but they just said on Radio 4 that he was a much loved family favourite.

I CLEARLY remember watching him on Jim'l Fix It and thinking "Oh he's HORRIBLE!"

I hated him...he was frightening and I could see that some children were very scared of him on that show.

Did ANYONE actually enjoy his "performances" and appearances?? I don't think so.

I think the establishment kept him where he was...on TV and in positions of power because he knew too much about THEIR activities.

And it's funny how it all came out once he was dead and couldn't name anyone else.

I challenge anyone to think back and remember how much they "loved" him at the time before his activities were known.

I loved Jim'll Fix It, but didn't liked Saville. Wouldn't have thought he was any more dangerous than any of the other presenters though.

I bet if you watched any unscripted television performance from that time you'll find things that look creepy or vile now in at least 10% of them.

To be honest a lot of what was going on at the time was pretty vile. From Benny Hill to St. Trillions to acceptance of sugar daddies to Charles marrying Diana. The idea that women should gladly accept the attentions of older men as a matter of course and that a bit of "light hearted" groping was just a bit of fun was all over the place.

I don't think that he was a favourite but the programme, "Jim'll Fix It" certainly was.

A very good point. Much like my analogy upthread that it's not the creepy stranger danger stereotypes that children love, its the puppies and bags of sweets they're lured by.

its true boomboom when I think back to attitudes in the 70s and 80s I am shocked

I think the worst thing is to remember how much was accepted back then. My aunt worked for a big record company back in the 60s/70s, and low (& not so low) level sexual harassment by the stars was just seen as normal.

And in everyday life, too - my mum remembers working in a bank in the 60s just out of school, and being warned which of the senior staff you had to be really careful with & make sure you didn't get stuck in a room alone with them. Obviously there was no concept that a 16 yr old junior could object/complain about having a hand stuck up her skirt/down her shirt.

MrsW I apologise if I offended you, it was not my intention.

What I am trying to say, obviously badly, is that if you are a victim and all these people around you are saying 'I always knew that he was bad, I always thought he was disgusting' then they are going to turn that blame inwards and say why didn't I know that?

It's like if you fall for a scam, you feel twice as bad if everyone else is saying that it was an obvious scam and they would never have fallen for it.

"The subtext is therefore I am safe, I can spot a peado, I won't fall for their tricks, I can protect the ones I love."

That is certainly not the subtext.

The OP is questioning whether the claims that he was a family favourite are unfounded. Many of us are saying that we did not like him as a child.

This does not mean that we therefore think you can 'spot a paedo'

I always found him horrible too. I remember watching Jim'll Fix It and finding it interesting but I knew I had NO interest in ever being on it because I didn't want to go near him.

Having said that, it's true that there are loads of people who seem odd and make you uncomfortable who are completely innocent, and also loads who are evil but much better than Savile at coming across as lovely and charming. Savile was an odd person, who didn't have relationships with women (or men), idolised his mother and seems to have had some kind of personality disorder as well as being a paedophile.

While I think hunches and instincts can be useful and shouldn't just be ignored, I don't think you can surmise that if someone's a paedophile you can automatically sense their creepiness and know to avoid them. If only it were that simple.

Yes in short I wouldn't have called him a family favourite. In the 70s and 80s when I was growing up I think he was generally seen as a slightly fascinating/odd one-off.

Also growing up in the 70's you were definitely put in your place of lower pecking order as a child. Older people were to be respected, you would never challenge an adult.

It was perfectly normal to be out on the street playing and to be bollocked by another adult or clipped across the earhole. My parents would never have taken my side against an authoritative adult such as a teacher for example. They would take the adults point of view first.

But my parents were twats to be fair.

Has anyone else noticed how JS's alleged daughter has gone very quiet about claiming his estate??!!

It is never, ever the victim's fault. Ever.

Where have I suggested that tethersend?

I am saying that as a child in the mid-Seventies I liked him. So did my parents inasmuch as they particularly cared. If I could have thought of something to get me on Jim'll Fix It, they would have allowed it.

I've already said they were nobody's fools and I doubt they would have allowed me to be alone with him. But that's not because they felt something about him, but because they would not have allowed me to be alone with any stranger - man or woman.

Quite possibly people whose only knowledge of Savile in the mid-Seventies or later was from watching him on TV suspected him of wrong-doing. You and the OP were obviously two of those people.

What I'm saying that what many other people didn't - not least because he was a respected figure.

It may be inadvertent, but I find the tone of the OP - that she knew and therefore that others could have done - dodgy, to use a word.

becool You arrived in Britain almost 20 years after Savile was a much-loved family favourite.

Well he was certainly a mega celebrity and all over the place in 1994 (still) and was for many years subsequent to 94 - and it has always astonished me why this was the case as he made me feel very uncomfortable just seeing him on the TV.

I don't think the OP is saying or implying that limited.

She is saying JS is always referenced, even now, as having been a "Much loved family favourite" yet the OP's experience and those of people around her was the opposite.

So was JS actually a "Much loved family favourite" (and if so who thought this) or was this a persona propagated by the BBC & other media?

Fair question to ask?

"It is never, ever the victim's fault. Ever.

Where have I suggested that tethersend?"

You haven't, limited; nor did I imply that you did.

I simply posted my belief in an attempt to refute the claims that by saying how I felt about JS as a child, I was somehow victim-blaming.

I take no pleasure in having known he was dodgy. Nor do I think anyone who was taken in by him was weak or somehow at fault. He was a skilled manipulator and predator.

"So was JS actually a "Much loved family favourite" (and if so who thought this) or was this a persona propagated by the BBC & other media?"

Summed up in a nutshell, BeCool.

Perhaps people feel subconsciously uncomfortable that they used to really like him, so are suggesting that those of us who didn't are now victim blaming.

Er what vivipru? I award you a perfect 10 for a very nifty bit of victim-blaming there.

Oh behave. I feel uncomfortable that I used to like Rolf Harris. I wouldn't call those who say they always thought he was a bit dodgy are victim blaming though.

I loved Jim’ll Fix It, for the same reasons as loads of other posters have said:

• It was kids’ TV – that was a thrill! There were about 2 hours of kids’ TV a week and when it was on, watching TV was a treat. Moving lit-up images beamed into your sitting room! Of course I liked it.
• The children did get to do cool things

Of course JS himself seemed horrible, as lots of people have already pointed out, but you basically ignored him. There were lots of horrible people inflicted on you as a child, people adults liked for utterly inexplicable reasons. In real life it was worse as you had to smile weakly and be polite as they manhandled you – tweaked your cheeks or made fun of your hair or glasses or whatever – but that was life. (yes I know I am lucky that that was the worst that happened to me, nothing in Yewtree league)

Nowadays I think it is weird that he called his TV show that when “fix” has such a sinister set of meanings. Freudianly telling

It used to be understood and accepted that some men were attracted to very young girls and even boys. I think there used to be less of a line drawn between that and ethical consensual sex, perhaps because all sex was “immoral” unless you were married, so, you know, that’s entertainment; and even if you were married, you could be 16 and if you were a woman have no right to refuse sex to your husband (who might be 40 and had met you when you were 14), so if that was thought to be ok and normal. I mean the whole enterprise used to be pretty much accepted as indecent so….

Has anyone read any of those JM Barrie stories about small boys? Very odd stuff published in mainstream magazines

He was a well-respected tv personality who did a phenomenal amount charity work and he was almost a Saint. You young ones must remember this is how he was seen. It is very easy to see things differently with hindsight.

"horrible people inflicted on you as a child"

I mean does anyone remember what teachers used to be like? They basically hated children, half of them. You complained about them, and having to go to school, and you were told off for being cheeky about not bad old sticks who were always at Mass. They would hit boys, especially, at every possible opportunity - legally. It was a strange world. You look back on the pictures and wonder why anyone thought that wallpaper with those curtains was a good idea, but really, judgements were skewed all over in much more important ways.

I didn't like him as a child - too way out and flamboyant and, yes, creepy. He also looked very much like my dad, and my friend used to tease my dad about it.
However, I changed my mind when another friend broke her spine and ended up in Stoke Mandeville. She was full of praise of how he was always popping in to cheer up the patients.

Makes us both shudder, now.

She was never abused by him. It's beginning to feel as if she was one of the lucky minority :(

I used to like the fixes on Jim'll Fix It, but Jim'll (as he was known in our house) was an embarrassment - mumbling, bumbling, awkward in front of the camera - I was born in 1966 so would have been about 12 when it was in its heyday and we all ripped the piss out of him something shocking - he was seen as an out of touch weirdo. His radio show was an embarrassing joke too, we all used to wish he'd retire and let someone else on the air!

I don't recall any of us (family or friends) thinking anything untoward about him though, and to us Hugh Dennis' impression of him on The Mary Whitehouse Experience a few years later kind of summed up how we all felt about him - naff and cringeworthy. I do remember seeing him on something years later and giving a bit of a shudder but that was more to do with a saggy pensioner in a skimpy gold tracksuit than anything else.

However my dad hated him. Savile, Rolf Harris and Hughie Green, called them all dirty old men - in the 70's my dad worked with the brother of a well-known actor and had quite a lot of gossip - not that he ever told us what it was, just used to turn the telly over and mutter about dirty old men...

DLT used to make me cringe too. I have no opinion on whether he raped anyone, but he strikes me as the exact sort of entitled git who'd have a grope if he thought he'd get away with it. IMHO.

He certainly was someone's favourite during the seventies - he appeared on TV, had that show and was much wanted in the 'clunk click' campaign, and the train taking the strain too. Then he got past his sell by date, and was kept afloat by the publicity for his charity runs and the hospital, and subsequent tv programmes on it - Jimmy's.

Then he kept limping on with the publicity, in that awful vest. My mother thought him gruesome - probably on the basis of his awful vulgarity. The world had moved on and we knew a lot more about sexual abuse at that time, thanks to children's charities, and he was looking more dodgy. So the Louis Theroux programme was not a surprise, but did really lift the lid on the reality. (I saw the LT programme where he followed some doggers - really sickening in a very low key way - it is really very clever).

Looking back, there were some very yukky presenters and comedians (and DJs!) around. My mother had a long list of them. My grandmother (who never realised her brother was gay - or John Innman, for that matter - very sheltered and naive) loved them.

And if I was to recall my memories of Jim'll Fixit it would be the Scouts on the rollercoaster at Blackpool pleasure beach, the two girls who designed an outift for Sindy and got to go round the Sindy factory to watch it being made and the girl who designed the school uniform with some trendy fashion designer (might've been Bruce Oldfield?)

He didn't really feature in my memories of the show, apart from the name.

Same with Mike Reid's Runaround, my brother had to actually point out to me that it was Frank Butcher "Paaaaaaaaat". I just remember how great the game was and how much the kids were enjoying it. Re-watching it now he looks so out of place, as if you'd wandered into an Hoxton pub and asked the first bloke in there to look after your primary school class for half an hour.

The 70's was just bloody weird.

"DLT used to make me cringe too."

Yeah, sure he did. All Operation Yewtree needs to do is check with you. It'll save them so much time and trouble.