To be horrified by the Card Factory

[Kidsinamerica123]

Browsing and came across this card. For those who can't see it - it's one of those 'old photo with a (supposedly) witty caption' 2 men are pictured standing by a fence with a caption that reads "Having popped out for a fag, Nigel was delighted when one turned up immediately."

Absolutely disgusted by this I called the Card Factory's head office straight away (I demanded the number in the shop), only to be informed "Head office only deal with complaints made in writing - there's nothing I can do for you now!"

AIBU to assume the good-readers of Mumsnet can help them address their misguided, revolting homophobic humour TODAY without waiting for letters to arrive?

I'm gay and burst out laughing at this, will totes join you in a real campaign ( or shopping trip) honey xx

He was a stranger. A stranger I met at SILs 40th party. I did explain the context.

I don't now why you would think I was lucky.... like many other gay men he does have a sense of self, a sense of humour and a broad knowledge of words that mean homosexual.

He is a fag... he is gay.... he isn't a tranny - your word, misused in your earlier post, that really was offensive. He is a gay, cross dresser, a fag in a frock. He is still a 'he'.

My transgender friend is also a 'he', though born a 'she'. I would never insult him by calling him a tranny - though as a transgendered individual that word is used of him in a derogatory manner, by those trying to be crude and rude.

The card is not for random person A to insult person B with, It is for a friend to send to another friend both of whom share a sense of humour.

We cannot ban all words that someone, somewhere has found offensive.

We cannot have a group of people determining what we can and cannot say. We can say that insults or abuse in whatever shape of form are unacceptable.

If I call a friend an old cow that's between us. if I call a woman on a bus and old cow that is not. The word itself is not the problem.

Policing words is ridiculous. So black people can say the N word but whites cannot. Gay women can say Dyke but straight women cannot.

Treat each other with respect and focus on that rather than who is allowed to use which words and who might be being racist/sexist/homophobic

I don't get this. There are constant threads on here discussing certain words to do with race/disability etc and how they are offensive. And the general consensus is 'if people are offended by it, then its offensive - just because you dont think it is, does not make it ok to use' blah blah. But on here, some posters are explaining that its still not a nice word to use in reference to gay people, yet others (seemingly in an attempt to be right on and down with the gays - or should I say fags) are insisting its fine.

I don't really get the difference between this word and 'nigger'. They are both words that have been (and cotinue to be) used in a highly derogatory way, but have been reclaimed and used by certain groups. Yet I don't think anyone would be ok with a card with the latter on the front would they? Would people just be like 'oh just don't buy it then'.

Nomama, I have a friend who is a gay man who 'does frocks'. He would most definitely NOT appreciate being referred to as a fag by a stranger at a party. No matter how faaaabulous. I guess you got lucky there.

kim as I pointed out, I didn't and don;t use the word tranny - you introduced that to our conversation.

What about C**t - regularly used on MN?
abuse is the thing we should be tackling. If someone abuses any one else - whatever the words they use - that should be stopped/ punished but arguing over words when many people say "It's fine" and other say"It's......ist" is just a waste of time an missing the point

PetShopGirl, I think I just have a lot of friends and family who are gay and have somehow found my level/niche. I wouldn't have said it in any other context... he was at my SILs birthday party, her friend, one I didn't know.

In SILs circle of friends 'fag' is used in the same way as camp is, to denote someone being overtly gay... as in silly and daft (another old fashioned take on a word). Which is why I am saying that I don' recognise it as a derisory term...

I can appreciate that is not the case for everyone... but as I don't socialise with anyone under the age of about 40 I don't think any of my friends will take offence...

And if anyone else wants to earwig our conversations and take offence, let them. They will be a) very young, and b) laughed at

Jesus Kim... we are really cross posting. I have already answered your questions.

Adding a perjorative to any sentence will make it more offensive, so I do not see your point with the 'fucking fag' question.

And I would never use the term transexual, the term I would use is transgender and has a specific meaning. One I know and use correctly.

Why? Because that is the term the 2 people I know who are transgendered use.

I'm very prepared to have my ignorance pointed out but I think 'tranny' is simply a shortened version of the word transgendered which is the term for someone who feels their identity is not the same as the gender they were born into?.

I can see tha the term trans-gendered male/female is more accurate and descriptive and perhaps the use of one term to cover both genders may not be ideal or desireable but is the term itself offensive?.

I know several trans-gendered females who use the term 'tranny' as it is an actual abbreviation and less of a mouthful iyswim. I have many gay male friends who use the term 'homo' because it is a shortened version of homosexual. Of course it would be better if most things were not labelled or defined and we're all just humans with differences but until that is achieved, I wonder how shortened versions of words are deemed offensive when the entire word/term is not.

Right - a heads up

I reported this thread/poster on the grounds of it being just a tad goady. The OP has apparently already deregged.

Make of that what you will ...

But I think we can safely say that this is not a genuine thread, and it was probably started to stir things up.

Then Kim, I can only hope you also recognise someone (me) who is not using those terms in that manner.

I also hope that you have a 'me' in your real life, to help you cope with the stupid pillocks you meet in life.

its rubbish the op never came back

That's a pity BIWI.

It's a subject that probably needs an airing in a calm manner. Shutting it away, however it starts, isn't going to make anyone better educated.

Also, I don't see the goadiness... especially if you mean Kim and myself. I, for one, don't see kim's posts as goady and hope she doesn't feel I am being so.

I'm sure they will - the card market is very wide and diverse.

it's one of those 'old photo with a (supposedly) witty caption' 2 men are pictured standing by a fence

I think if you look closely, it's a tree.

Nomama, for what it's worth, the friend I was referring to is 48. I don't think finding the word fag offensive is the preserve of the very young only. But I also think we will probably have to agree to disagree on this.

It's all very well that some groups of people reclaim words but in recognising that they are reclaiming it, it's important to NOT ignore it's roots.