To think that our children aren't safe in general and we need to be super vigilant ?

[cafebistro]

I don't think in being unreasonable or paranoid after today. My friend and I went into town on a shopping trip with our children. My dd is 4 years old and my friend dd is just a baby. We were walking through town and has to stop along with a crowd of other shoppers at a level crossing for a good 5 minutes. During this time I noticed a guy looking at my dd. No actually he was eyeing her up and down. I quietly said something to my friend and she said alarmed "he's leering at her". I kept her close , she was messing with her dress and I was frantically pulling it down. I kept checking and he was still doing it, staring. Anyway the level crossing was clear and we carried on walking into a shop. Then I noticed the guy had followed us in. A little while later I was looking at something on shelves and then quickly turned round and the guy was right behind me , he jumped as in shock and moved away.

I'm in shock. I know the guy didn't actually do anything but I think this is the first time I've ever felt that my child may have been under threat. I actually felt like saying to this man "what is your problem! If you come near my child again ...."

I honestly don't think I was being paranoid .

"I met a woman who had her dd snatched from under her nose."

And you know this all true because............?

To answer the OP.

I believe our children are very safe in general. Obviously, there are families with predatory male relatives (and females sometimes) Sex abuse within families is sadly, not uncommon. So yes, absolutely, quite right to keep an eye on Junior when cuddly old granddad or Uncle Derek is hanging around.

Stranger danger is thankfully much much much rarer.

But I guess that wasn't your point.

I imagine children as as safe now as many years ago. It's just that we all have access to the media so hear more of the stories of kids being abducted etc.

I also think that they may be more seemingly "odd" characters in our communities because of the way MH care has changed. Years ago people with MH and developmental issues were often herded together into institutions and left to rot there for the rest of there lives. We had a huge establishment in our village when we were growing up, which mainly housed older patients who had been in their for their entire lives.

Now more people are integrated into the community and although perfectly safe and harmless, may not have the same social niceties that we rather reserved Brits expect. So staring at someone that has attracted their attention, or even reaching out to touch something or speaking to a child could be something we might see as inappropriate, but this is not understood by the individual. So what may be perceived as predatory behaviour, might actually just be the actions of an individual who has developmental or MH problems, who is living and coping in society.

Hakluyt - I spent a week on a professional trip with her. It was a long time ago, before paedophiles were common in the news, and she was a very sensible, down to earth woman in a profession where integrity is important. It wasn't a friend of a friend telling me a tale in a pub. The main thrust of our conversation about it was about being a busy working parent and juggling children, and how to intervene in difficult situations and how hard that can feel - her admiratation was for the presence of mind of the woman who spotted her child and put two and two together - and that it was a woman who thought [hang on, that child was being refused sweets and now has an ice cream'.

I had no reason to doubt her. Sometimes these things happen, the minority statistic. Must all women be dismissed as hysterical fantasists in the face of paedo-reporting in the media?

P.S Hakluyt: as you so passive-aggressivley dimsmissed me?

My sister was almost abducted when she was a child. My mum was distracted, she wandered off and mum spent a frantic half hour searching for her. Eventually, mum headed out of the shopping centre towards the police station - and saw her with a man, a big bag of sweets clutched in her hand.
He claimed he was taking her to the police station. He evidently didn't know where it was, though, because he was headed in the wrong direction.

And I know that it's true because I was there. I will never forget my mum's terror.

Oh, and Op:

I believe you.

The mental leap from that man is acting unconventionally to he is an evil child snatching kiddy fiddler is so vast that it really isn't a case of 'saying trust your instinct'

There are a thousand and one more rational and likely explanation than 'opportunistic paedophile' (mental health, learning difficulties, trying to work out if he knows you, daughter reminds him of someone, he likes children) that if the first thought tbat flashes into your head is 'paedophile' then you may need to reflect on why you think this way rather than trusting what is actually a socially conditioned response.

saying 'listen to your instict' is necessarily the best thing to do. We all have situations where we feel ill at ease, yet nothing happens or the fear was unfounded and we forget about it.
The mrnt

ChqrmQuark- because stories like that are more than usually urban myths. Facebook is crawling with them. I didn't mean to be passive-aggressive- but I am exasperated by the perpetuation of such myths- it makes people unnecessarily anxious. And is all part of the subconscious desire we all have to push any danger to our children outward- onto the stranger, the "other". When the risk, such as it is, is within our own family and circle. That is too unpalatable. So we reassure and comfort ourselves with the idea of "stranger danger".

I agree Hakluyt. I think most people are aware now that moat abuse happens within families and people close to families. More should be done to help people recognise the signs, etc.

But in this instance the OP who has had four years of parenting and people paying attention to her child without any paranoia came across someone who she describes as "leering" at her child and perhaps following them.

It's obviously shaken her up a bit and made her think about the possibility of someone wanting to cause harm to her child. Measured responses will have helped the OP see how "in general" our children are safe. Calling her paranoid or silly is just cruel.

Although I do abhor those alarmist urban myths. They can be terribly damaging to communities.

I have a friend who relates every child snatching urban myth to me as if it were gospel. She was on hyper alert even when pushing her pfb in his pram.

She's so anxious and it's, imo, totally unnecessary - even if the stories aren't bollocks, which I'm positive they almost all are, the baby's in the pram under her eye at all times!

OP, yanbu for finding a man creepy but I think yabvu to extrapolate 'we're under threat at all times' from it, esp when you're there to supervise your dcs' safety.

I am not saying ignore your instinct (this isn't instinct at all by the way) but a learned response, but in thr aftermath of the incident reflect on why you reacted that way and what was more likely.

Reading the op's post her thoughts seem to have gone like this

The man is acting unusually

Therefore he is a paedophile

A paedophile who is attracted to my child

He is going to snatch my child and abuse her

Therefore no child is safe in public

Written down you can see the absurdity of it and how it becomes a vicious circle and used to inform future thoughts abd feelings.

Shall we all add an anecdote of the time we didn't get carried off by the bogeyman just to even things up?

I belong to a FB living memory group for my hometown and at least once a week there is a shifty guy doing unspeakable things to girls in the Asda car park. Always dark complexioned and "possibly Eastern European or Asian".

It makes me frit. But not of "peedos". That such eejits who believe and diffuse this shit are allowed out of the house.

Don't forget the white vans and silver cars outside schools.......

Compos If that was the OP's thought process it was indeed absurd.

But if it went something like

Oh that man is looking at DD

He's still looking, why? (Checks DD is okay, not playing up, etc)

He's looking her up and down, something feels weird.

Points out to friend who is surprised and describes him as "leering".

Not just me who finds him weird then!

Later in shop - he's behind us and is alarmed when I see him and leaves.

I feel like he could possibly be thinking inappropriate thoughts about my child, rightly or wrongly I'm now upset at the possibility.

Still a big leap to say "in general" pur DC are not safe but it's not necessarily paranoid to be shaken up.

I think the majority of parents are much more aware these days OP.

There could be a number of reasons this guy was staring. I used to support a man who had a brain injury. He looked fine however it did affect his vision. He would hard stare at something/someone until he told his brain to look away. He never took in what he was looking at but it was a delayed reaction in looking away. This did cause some issues as people would be aggressive and do the 'what are you staring at pal'.

Not saying your instincts were wrong just that sometimes it can be totally innocent.

If it was a woman looking at your child how would you have reacted? You probably wouldn't have even noticed?

Maybe he was just looking at her because she's a cute little child not because he is a pedophile? I look at children all the time because they are doing something funny or cute or because they are pretty.

I think people have become too paranoid in the uk, I places like Spain it is quite normal for strangers to talk to children, offer them sweets or tell the parents how pretty they are, the uk has become a place where parents are too scared to let their children play more than 2ft away from them in fear they will get snatched, I find this sad

Last week I was in a supermarket, I was on the till paying and one of the mums from my dd's school was on another till with her almost 2 year old in the trolley, she realised she had forgotten something on her list so dashed off leaving her 2 year old in the trolley ( like you do ) her dd started to cry, there was another person next in the queue, they just stood there the man on the till just sat there whilst the little girl was getting quite upset, no one was brave enough to say 'shhhh, mummy will be back in a minute', I ran over from the till I was on to reassure her, I got evil looks as though I was going to snatch her ( obviously no one knew that I knew the child ). So sad that people are too scared to comfort a crying child incase they get accused of anything.

Sangria Everythingisawesome specifically asked for instances where children have been abducted while out shopping. She now has two.

My apologies. I didn't realise your sister had been abducted. I thought your mother had lost sight of her and then found her with a man who said he was taking her to the police.

Was he prosecuted?

Pssst, sarinka, there is. It's just that 99.99% of them are members of the child's family, not randoms in shops.

In mumsnet land there are loads of paedophiles. They are just not easily identifiable as such by looking shifty, wearing dirty raincoats and having peedo conveniently tattooed on their knuckles.

Would that they were that easy to spot.

sarinka that is a very stupid thing to say considering there are sadly plenty of threads where sexual abuse has happened to members.

I think it is more to do with the fact that this guy didn't do anything wrong. He was staring which last time I looked was not a criminal offence. He also went in to the same shop as the OP again not criminal it's a shop, people do go in them.

Posters should not put the OP down because of how she felt but then again your comment was a clear generalisation and untrue.