To ask what is your instinctive response to hearing a child is Home Educated?

[NickiFury]

I am really interested to hear general opinions from everyone and hoping for some from professionals such as teachers etc. I really want to know what people think because in the main in RL, the response is overwhelmingly negative. I've had people threaten to call SS on me because ds isn't in school, been told it's "weird" and seen this face a lot.

Now to me home education is a totally normal thing but I suspect this is only because we are immersed in this world and know lots of other HE families (you'd be surprised how many are out there).

What has made me think about this was a friend telling me today that people in our community know of me and ds without ever having met us because we are notorious as that woman who doesn't send her kid to school .

Btw I also have a child who does go to school and is doing well but no one seems to gossip about that.

So what would YOU think if you someone told you their child is home educated?

Thanks .

I have NOT read any of the 35 pages in this thread! Just the first couple of posts.

I am a teacher, and have to assess home educated students for acceptance into 6th form, and my instinctive response is dread.

Some home educated students are well balanced, socialised and broadly educated, and can take their place within their peer group with minimal adjustment, and work within the limitations and expectations of society, having a realistic judgement of their own abilities, rights and responsibilities.

In my experience, less than 5%.

That is not to say they cannot recover and go on to be normal adults, but it takes compromise and hard work from the school and the student, and the school can be empathetic and flexible, but the student may not be capable of meeting us half way.

What an embarrassing thread this is.

Why do you even care? Be confident in your decision, unless you think it wasn't the right decision?

That is an interesting post Luggagecarousel.

inanotherlife and anyone else who has been HEd, can I just say, as someone who HEs now and is going to do so for an indeterminate future period, I am really interested in your experiences, in what you felt was done wrong, etc. I think your voices are really important and I appreciate that this is

I am so sorry you've had these awful experiences inanotherlife

I am certainly guilty of the over explaining thing! I'm much better now, but when we started HEing I really was terrible. My kids did put me straight though . And I was like that when they were in school too . .

My sense is that there are different HE communities, and the unschooly/autonomous one, while riven with politics and thought police to some extent, is so because kids are so absolutely put first.

In fact, one thing I've noticed about unschoolers/autonomous types is that they seem to come disproportionately from abusive families and I've wondered if what is really going on is that they don't have a sense of normal parenting, so need a lot of rules (unschooling is very rigid and structured, in some ways, for the adult delivering it) and overcompensate around putting kids first and so on. If you've come from this kind of family, parenting well is going to be hard. I think unschooling, which normally seems to translate into a kind of extremely mindful and quite academically pushy this ("Jocasta studied for her helicopter licence because she wanted to etc) kind of parenting, could actually be the best of a few bad options if you've experienced extreme abuse in childhood.

oops. I'm not actually saying unschooling is a bad option. I find it pretty intriguing, actually, though a lot of what they say about parenting does seem redundant and OTT in the context of decent parenting, and there seems to be a complete lack of awareness of how "normals" parent-that we're not all belittling them and making them go to bed at 6 so we can drink gin.

Brabra it's not a decision I had much of a choice in making if you've read the thread you'll know that. I am confident for MY ds that it's right though because he's thriving and we had exhausted every option in our area.

Not sure what is "embarrassing" about this thread, I have found it really informative. It is interesting to me that the number those with a positive experience from being HE is pretty even with those who didn't. I still don't agree that a HE child is more open to being abused though, which is a constant refrain both here and in RL.

I started this thread with the best of intentions having had negative responses in RL, some people are arguing on it and while that wasn't my intention I have had some great information out of it so it's a win .

magicalriff it's a conclusion drawn from the fact that you want me to go away, and yet post inaccuracies as fact. It's like a 17-year-old babysitter telling a 5-year-old out loud that she wants him to go to sleep so that she can eat chocolate ice-cream in front of the TV.

Other than not pointing out that sub-text, I'm interested in how you think I could post on this thread without being considered "chippy". I think by posting in exactly my normal manner, but not saying anything negative about home-ed. I think, "well, you could have been failed by school too" and similar dismissive remarks were always considered a winner, in the past and on this thread.

If you consider the exchange I posted up above, I said a lengthy version of "sometimes it works really well, but no all the time". What did I get back? An accusation that I was angry, a pat on the head, and a comment that it wasn't fair to say it could never work, just because it hadn't worked for me.

I make a post pointing out that five GCSEs is a minimum, not necessarily the optimum number for all career options, and that it matters what the GCSEs are. I get a response that 'HEers can still be doctors'. Er, yes, I even acknowledged in the post that you're replying to that some medical schools care less about GCSEs than others.

It's like arguing with chatbots!

Sigyn One thing that should be considered in HE is your own dislike or hatred of a subject. You may honestly give teaching something a go, but unless you are actually an Hollywood actor, your feelings about it will come through. It's difficult to inspire enthusiasm you don't have! And for the purposes of this post, Nicolas Cage and Hugh Grant don't count, because I don't think they get paid to act different characters.

This is part of the reason why HE is something I would only choose at secondary if I thought the secondary school options were dangerous for my child's psychological or physical health. I am utterly incapable of doing anything with poetry without physically sneering, and I think that my child should have a chance to try analysing poetry and see if it's something they can love!

Mathematics is one example of this. Most active HEers are female, and the HEers of the previous generation often went to schools which were-of-their-time. By that, I mean that girls were expected to do badly at maths. So naturally they did.

When these grew up and some went on to choose to HE as adults (in part often due to their diabolical school experiences) they saw Maths as a compulsory but useless subject and taught it that way. When you add in the normal human thing of seeing yourself in your child ("Lisa is just like me, she just doesn't get Maths. Ah well, it never did me any harm. She's the arty child, and Jacob is the sciency/sporty one"), things are worsened.

I am the only female former home-educated child I know with maths qualifications beyond GCSE. For people in my age group, I am the only one I personally know with a Maths GCSE at all!

Oh, and after all that, I left my conclusion off:

If it's a subject you have no passion for, or worse, seriously consider getting outside assistance, whether as part of a swap (Mrs Turrocks' teaching of Subject X for you teaching her child Subject Y) or simply the exchange of coin for a professional tutor.

And that's a common HE pratfall done and dusted!

I still don't agree that a HE child is more open to being abused though, which is a constant refrain both here and in RL.

As I understand it, the majority of abused children appear in zero data sets. Because nobody ever discovers the abuse, let alone investigates or prosecutes.

I don't believe the majority of parents who choose HE are abusers. But I do believe it is possible that HE can be chosen because it facilitates abuse. I also believe it's possible that some parents, who would have employed more caution had their children had been exposed to greater oversight, meet out an increased degree of abuse as a direct result of their children being less on the radar.

Abuse may be less prevalent in HE, it might be more or less the same, it might be far more prevalent, but better placed to stay in the "invisible and never discovered" category. We just don't know because you can't count what you can't see.

I don't think I have come across a case of abuse personally in my HEiverse. But then, abuse is missed by neighbours, social workers, teachers, doctors, friends and family for years and years even in an awful lot of cases of school children. And they have way more contact and way more red flag training than I do. So just how valid is a self assessment of "well I have never come across an abusive parent in X years of HE"?

I suppose those who choose HE for facilitating abuse purposes wouldn't tend to hurl themselves into visibility by joining groups and forums. But, if that is true, that the bulk are invisible to us, are those cases of high profile child abusing/child murdering HEers, participating in the running of Education Otherwise no less, really "random, non statistically significant blips"... or just the tip of an iceberg, with the overwhelming bulk hidden well under the waterline ?

I am not putting forward a case for HE being a hotbed of abuse. Like I said. I don't know and I don't know how we as "not qualified in child protection" HEers find out one way or the other.

But I can't colour myself wholly convinced by comfortable stats that can only ever count the known. Not when I am aware of just how under the official radar it is possible to be when you HE. It feels too much like being overly willing to risk sweeping children's misery, suffering and torment under a rug for my own peace of mind, and I'm just not comfortable with that.

HE and abuse is irrelevant. Plenty of abuse cases happen in schools. Plus suicides from bullying.

To answer the OP, my instinctive response is:

(a) you must have a lot more patience than I do; and
(b) I wonder why you feel HE is the way to go?

I think how I then reacted would depend on what I thought the answer to (b) was and whether I thought you were a reasonable person or a bit odd. If you seemed reasonable, I can't see that I would have any issues with the way you choose to eductate your children.

"It's a conclusion drawn from the fact that you want me to go away, and yet post inaccuracies as fact. It's like a 17-year-old babysitter telling a 5-year-old out loud that she wants him to go to sleep so that she can eat chocolate ice-cream in front of the TV."

Seriously, this from an adult (I'm guessing you're an adult). You're really embarrassing yourself, Tillytelltale. Can't you see how ridiculous some of the things you've been posting are. This is just childish. Back to marionettes then?

Chippy:
(Of a person) touchy and defensive, especially on account of having a grievance or a sense of inferiority.

Luggagecarousel that is very interesting feedback. How many HE students have you assessed and over what period of time?

Your lack of education is shining through here I'm afraid. I can't remember anything of sense, or not a personal attack on others, that you've typed. Just the silly monologues.

Home education was not right for you and I hope it's not something you would adopt yourself if you ever have children

I'm also interested in how many, Luggagecarousel. Being a bit of a rarity, comparatively, as they are (home educated children).

"I am the only female former home-educated child I know with maths qualifications beyond GCSE. For people in my age group, I am the only one I personally know with a Maths GCSE at all!"

That says more about the people you know and mix with surely.

Nicki - whats embarrassing about the thread?

Sadly its the behaviour of some of those contributing to it.

Even within the arguing I have found lots of useful information tbh so it's not all bad

I'm sorry for my part in the arguing. I grew more offended on behalf of the people Tilltteltale was attempting to insult as the thread went on. I should have ignored her rather than wade in on their behalf.

To be fair, I thought she might apologise, try behave nicely and the discussion could continue. But I'm doing little more than prodding and prompting extremely long, incoherent monologues.

magicalriff

Perhaps this would be easier if MN had quoting. I do tend to assume people can follow my train of thought, which is a flaw. My sarcastic paragraph about marionettes was in response to this:

AND, possibly the most important point of all, if you need to be angry and disappointed at somebody, then it sounds like you should be angry at your mother.

This was another accusation that I am angry, and an implication I'm taking it out on MN instead of my mother.

Does that help? I personally thought it was one of my better flights of sarcasm, but obviously I'll never be the next Terry Pratchett.

I also see you don't like my analogies either. Meh. Fair enough.

But I'm glad that my analogies are bringing us back to the post I made on Friday, at 16:50, and convincing you of its truth.

touchy and defensive, especially on account of having a grievance or a sense of inferiority.

Not convinced it's me who's defensive.

That says more about the people you know and mix with surely.

I don't understand this comment. Please clarify. Do they not count as home-educated because they don't sound good for HE? Even the ones with Oxbridge degrees and a hatred of maths inculcated since birth?

"I also see you don't like my analogies either. Meh. Fair enough."

comes to mind. Perhaps you'll be of like mind when you've calmed down a little and had time to reflect.

magicalriff

Well...

No, actually. I think I'll just let you get on with it.

One of your posts makes my arguments better than twenty of mine can.

You place a greater priority on an adult HEer maybe feeling insulted on AIBU, than finding out how/why HE failed a child and placed them at a disadvantage as an adult. And most HEers on the thread stood back and raised no objection to that.

I think that pretty much tells the "HE ambivilent" gen pub everything they ever needed to know about HEiverse priorites.

You place a greater priority on an adult HEer maybe feeling insulted on AIBU, than finding out how/why HE failed a child and placed them at a disadvantage as an adult. And most HEers on the thread stood back and raised no objection to that.

I didn't place a greater priority. That is your own, incorrect, interpretation.
I will object to that sort of insulting childish behaviour if I see fit, as did one or two others.

You don't know anything about me. And without outing myself, I'm involved in voluntary work for one of the home ed charities and very much care about the welfare of home educated children (and ex home educated children).