To ask what is your instinctive response to hearing a child is Home Educated?

[NickiFury]

I am really interested to hear general opinions from everyone and hoping for some from professionals such as teachers etc. I really want to know what people think because in the main in RL, the response is overwhelmingly negative. I've had people threaten to call SS on me because ds isn't in school, been told it's "weird" and seen this face a lot.

Now to me home education is a totally normal thing but I suspect this is only because we are immersed in this world and know lots of other HE families (you'd be surprised how many are out there).

What has made me think about this was a friend telling me today that people in our community know of me and ds without ever having met us because we are notorious as that woman who doesn't send her kid to school .

Btw I also have a child who does go to school and is doing well but no one seems to gossip about that.

So what would YOU think if you someone told you their child is home educated?

Thanks .

Many of us are not "only one chapter ahead" because we facilitate rather than teach. GCSEs are a bit of a red herring. Many HE DC go to college at 16 (and now 14 because the funding had been made available to colleges) to do GCSEs. They often do five in one year at 16 and then go on to A levels.

For DC heading to university, five iGCSEs are very doable at home - many DC start with maths at 12 or 13 (because no maturity of writing is required) and then do one or two a year. Five is sufficient to be accepted onto A level courses at college and A levels are extremely difficult to do as an independent candidate. From there, the DC apply for university on much the same schedule as other DC so it is difficult to see (in the stats) that they have been HE.

There is a difference between teaching, learning, and training. Teaching is only one method which helps/facilitates/enables learning, so it's possible that the parent isn't the "only teacher" in the sense that they are the only source of learning/knowledge. Training is very specific and needed for particular skills or career choices, people tend to seek this out, whether they are adults or teenagers - home ed or school ed.

"For DC heading to university, five iGCSEs are very doable at home - many DC start with maths at 12 or 13 (because no maturity of writing is required) and then do one or two a year."

Yep, that's what we did. Though we started later at 14, but on home ed board here, for example, a few people have done IGCSE very early. I like to read the HE boards and groups around exam time to hear of the successes!

Apparently being HE stands them in good stead when applying to colleges and university, as it shows independent learning.

exam results time*

Agree that it sounds like you've done a bloody good job, granny.

I'm late in responding, so I've only read a few posts.

If I were to meet a HE child, I'd be both delighted and intrigued.

I regard it as important that there is an alternative to school. State schools work very well for the large majority of children and their parents. But it's impossible to cater for all, and there are many reasons for that. In some countries, HE is illegal, so children there have to go through the school system, and there's nothing a concerned parent could do about that.

The law in the UK is that the legal responsibility for a child receiving an education according to age, ability, and aptitude, is the parents. The local education authority has the duty to provide suitable education for children in their area. I think the distinction is an important one.

I'd be intrigued to listen to what a HE child is currently fascinated by. Learning is something children do naturally, but, especially during the primary years, they can be at many different levels – what they can tell about what fascinates them, what they can read about what fascinates them, and what they can write about what fascinates them. A child could be all over the place in terms of levels, but that wouldn't work very well in the school system, especially now as it seems that levels are what it's all about, and teachers these days don't have much in the way of flexibility in catering for the individual children in their class.

Most children flourish in school; but some don't; or some parents don't want the 9-3, Mon-Fri, term-dates, homework, education for their children. I think it's important to think about what the difference is between "learning" and "education".

Good post, Wanda!

BertieBotts well, mine is a little more recent than yours.

I should specify that all UK languages qualifications are supposed to be broadly standardised by equating to levels of the international CEFR for languages. There is some controversy over whether they do, in fact, meet the specifications, but all the grammar I listed is in the back of the GCSE textbooks, and is required to get a good grade on the present four controlled assessments- two written, two spoken.

More importantly, I hold to the view that a GCSE should actually be a good foundation for the A-level course. Plenty of teenagers do manage to feign understanding of actual grammar for their written work at GCSE, whether through memorising example sentences, altering a couple of words so it doesn't count as plagiarism, and piecing it all together, or simply getting a tutor or German-speaker to do it for them. Then they get a B/A*, trot off to do an A-level course, often at a different institution, and sometimes fail miserably. Watched it happen multiple times, and it's almost certainly even less fun to experience.

If you don't know how to say the in German, you are not adequately prepared for the A-level. You may have a piece of paper, but you have not achieved the level it is supposed to equate to.

And for French, students should understand the difference between qui/que!

Gove has talked about introducing 'rigor' into MFL teaching, but having read his proposals, I am unconvinced they will do anything other than kill off A-level language departments (it is already a struggle for many students to enrol on any language other than French), and remove the opportunity for A-level students to even give learning GCSE grammar and AS-grammar* at once, during their AS year a go. And he's obsessed with literature.

*This is achieved by many students.

Regarding the 5 GCSEs, does this not depend on how wide the local FE college's provision is?

If, for example, your child has realised by 14/15 they wish to be a doctorn or biochemist, they will ideally be taking at least GCSE Maths, Chemistry, Physics, Biology and English, as the single sciences are better prep for the A-levels. Biology A-level isn't a hard and fast requirement for medicine, so maybe GCSE isn't either, but the point is that if all that is available is GCSE English Language and Lit, History, Maths, Geography and Psychology, that will restrict A-level options. Your career as a Nobel Prize-winning Physicist has just encountered a road block*. Five is a decent number, and certainly more than I used to have, but not enough for everything. If you are not already certain what A-levels you will want to take, (in order to build your GCSE courses around that) or change your mind about your A-level subjects as a consequence of the GCSEs, your A-level choices are limited.

I know that some medical schools require 8xA* achieved in one single sitting. Perhaps some flexibility may be available for HE candidates, but if not, that's a restriction on places worth applying to.

I will grant that locally, GCSE provision at FE has improved incredibly over the last ten years, and this may be a national phenomenon. (It's something I've taken advantage of!)

Back then, the GCSEs provided were Maths, a science course ridiculed on mumsnet which probably doesn't look good on my CV , Eng Lit and Lang, Photography and Media Studies. It now provides multiple single science GCSEs, social sciences, and arts and humanities. But my mate who used to live a few counties away says the post-sixteen GCSE provision is far better here than the town he was in last year.

*Yes, I know some people manage to do A-levels without the GCSE first. I'm friends with some. But humans who aren't quite that level of genius have something to offer the world, too.

I would be nervous about HE-ing.

I'd certainly give it a go in a post-apocalyptic scenario, but otherwise, I'd be rather stuck with the fact that they'd be missing out on specialist teaching.

I'm a good Eng Lang/Lit teacher, & also pretty good with Latin & History; in any of those I could probably get fabulous results via one-to-one teaching.

I want my children to be taught Maths, Sciences & Arts subjects by someone who's good at those, too; which means someone who knows about teaching them, not just me & my grade A O-Levels - I have (outdated) subject knowledge, yes, but that doesn't make me able to impart it effectively.

For example, my dd1 is really rather gifted at Maths. I'm not up to the job of teaching her (nor's her primary teacher, for that matter, but she's spotted that dd1 is unusually able, which I wouldn't have, as I have no benchmark for average 8yo Maths prowess).

I was always good at Maths, but not having continued it past A Level, 25 years ago, I'd have no idea how to teach someone who is simultaneously far more able than me but has 10 years' worth of the syllabus to cover.

In terms of personal impact, I have two HE families within my extended family.

The first was largely motivated by the parents travelling a great deal for work - as they'd be the first to cheerfully agree. Not much learning went on. The dc did end up schooled back in the UK at secondary level, & were a bit behind academically, a bit spoilt & unruly, but ultimately settled in successfully. Interestingly, when they were enrolled briefly in a school abroad which included corporal punishment amongst its sanctions, I was surprised that my relative was willing to accept her ds being publically caned on the bum for disobedience, given that she'd always been very outspoken on the subject of UK schools & their child-stifling practices.

The other family are avoiding the teaching of evolution, basically.

I'm not a fan of HE, & I think children being HEd should probably be kept an eye on to ensure they are actually receiving an education, but I'm prepared to accept that there are many responsible HE-ing parents out there actually doing a decent job, & they should not be prevented from doing so.

Im back again. I forgot to add that my son now works. Ok, its in the business Ive recently set up but that was part and parcel of setting up the business in the first place. He goes to work every Sunday and waters the plants, fills the water cooler, and stocks the cupboard up with tea, coffee, and milk. He does this when I know there will only be certain people there because the honest fact is that with his ASD, his tourettes, his mental health issues, and the the fact he is built like grizzly bear adams - there are times when he can quite honestly fleg bairns. Well that's those apart from his nieces and nephews who he's like a big teddy bear with because they know him and got used to him from the word go when he'd be the first one into see him. If he hears a crying baby he will pick it up, give it to his sister and say - give booby. He once upon a time wanted to add a couple of cigars to his shopping list so he could stand outside his sisters hospital room and give them to passers by. He had seen it on TV and thought it was what you did.

After he's been to work he is allowed to go and get a fast food lunch, usually Burger King, he's only allowed that once a week because of the close eye we have to keep on his weight. His medication has weight gain as a side effect. We hope to build him up to going to work 3 times a week over the next year.

And when he gets his new car this week he will be in charge of washing it as well.

He made us laugh and scared us to death in equal measure once when we were having a party. He went missing and even though common sense told us he couldn't have gotten out of the garden because of the security system in place - we were thinking he must have somehow. It was a nightmare. Anyway we searched and the next thing his cousin shouted he's here - and there he was fast asleep on a couch thing with his legs flung up and over the back of it. He looked as if he'd been on a bender, the waistband on his Calvin Kleins (one of his brothers bought them for him and told me its a right of passage to have Calvin Kleins - then you grow up and go back to Markies) was on show, his jeans had wriggled down, and his t-shirt was all twisted. He was exhausted from doing his Grand Old Duke of York style of dancing all night, plus eating his body weight in Samboosa, but had refused to go to bed - because for sure he was trying to wait up and sneak another pepsi when I wasn't looking. He fell asleep waiting and his big brothers especially like to tease him about it, they'll sometimes talk about an adventure they've had and include him in it by saying, yeah and dont you sit there looking as if butter wouldn't melt in your mouth - what about the night you got trashed and ended up unconscious in the garden. Its really funny the way they do it and what they involve in the retelling of the night, my son loves it even though I know for sure there's only certain bits of it he understand.

My son was born not knowing how to live a day, he would get up and just stand still because he didn't know what a person was supposed to do next. We quite literally had to hold his hand and walk him through a day till he learned how to live. He's 23 now and too old for handholding but he still likes being tucked up in bed at night after we've shot the polar bears he likes to pretend live under his bed. He must lie there and think to himself - they're all bloody bonkers.

Just to add - he can't drive and never will be able to and its been very painful telling him he can't because he is 'autistilics' which is his word for Autistic. Its been a lot for him to process and come to terms with but he has and we've been able to compromise and get him a car that he knows is his.

ravenAK : she's spotted that dd1 is unusually able, which I wouldn't have, as I have no benchmark for average 8yo Maths prowess

An advantage of HE, IMHO, is that there is no need for someone to spot her unusual ability at 8. Basically, you keep upping the ante with the maths until the child reaches a level where she stops being interested. She may stay at the top end of the ability range or her peers may catch up. There is no way of telling.

One of my reasons for HEing is that I did not want my DC (who both got to uni - one has graduated in law) to be compared with others - only with themselves. As it happens, our local secondary had a GCSE pass rate of about 27% A-C x 5. I didn't want my DC coasting and thinking they were geniuses. I did want them stretching themselves. (BTW, I HEed from the start and we moved town during what would have been primary years, so the secondary mentioned was not a factor in my decision.)

I have a big problem with the concept of "what the child should be able to do". As adults we are all different and no-one thinks about a "reading age" of 40 or 45. By testing the "reading age", all you do is demoralise and specify what someone cannot do. As an HE parent, my job was to make sure that they were progressing - not necessarily linearly and not in everything simultaneously.

Incognito,

'Progressing' is a woolly word borrowed from teaching colleges. What does it actually mean? All children 'progress' in some ways unless they are profoundly mentally impaired. An 18 year old will always have more ability than a 5 year old, even without any form of teaching.

Benchmarking can be destructive, I agree. However, applied sensibly, it can be useful. How can one know that a child is reaching their own potential without somehow trying to measure it and benchmark against it? Most schools use peer benchmarking not per se but to see how a child is doing over time. So, if a child is in the top quartile for reading at the end of one year but in the bottom quartile the following year, that would raise a flag that something was going awry and needed to be investigated.

Im about to embark on home ed in sept and expecting negative assumptions as already started so im just working hard on getting thicker skin and switching off to negativity as the thourght, pressure is scary enough as it is without people telling me my child will be

lonely
weird
deprived
bored
academically behind.
unhappy

we chosen it as option as dident get any of our school places.

s we on wiatlist for all 3 but really need option 1 as thats where child no 1 goes and child no 3starts prescholol next door i cant be 2 or 3places at once, dd3 really needs preschool, no9t moving dd1 as we moved her to that school and shes doing amazing and has 3years primary left.

we used t do far away preschool and new new school and was hell one of them was always late, I was tired and stressed.

ij rder to do more than 1 school would have do afterschool care, breckfasts club, childminder would cost £150+per month to take my child to school i hadent picked the allocated school being distance from school and our house so turned it down as lea will nly let me bank 3schools anyway.

Dd2 is 5 in sept shes done 2full years preschool and bit bored there and nursery since 18months,.

i have a levels and degree not in teaching but feel qualified enough to teach reception /foundation as suppst t be learning throuh play same curriculum as nursery and tehy not qualified teachers.

only thing is I plan be quite structured get most out of my time as dd3 is doing 3days preschool allowing me teach dd2 t swim, do home ed meets, visits and trips.

I have brought loads phonics and early readers.

I dont seem fit in with most of local home educators some are same as sterotype trying to find ones like me, found a few online in usa they are very stuctured and planned.

Im christian not overly religous but would have like a church school as all 3 are baptised coe.

Agree about alternative toddler group comment went to one thinking find some people same age and was mostly toddlers or much older kids.

I do feel like im on fringe now im odd connondrum of people home ed out nessesity thourght was quite common in london saying that everyone raved about huge home ed scene locally yet preschool and nursery think im reckless fussy weirdo as they never had anyone home educate before with nursery very concerned about welfare is it legal? am i qualified? what will i do was really odd. lea dont seem care until ja as legally defer im not a problem hping get school by then.

I dont think schools right for all kids.

there are some shitty schools we did one and moved eldest

its too target driven

i think kids do start to early in uk and can see why people home ed primary at least.

There was really good phone in n wright stuff few weeks back with really postive bit on home ed even changed matthews way thinking.

until the uk has amazing education system, and enough spaces for growing amount of kids what other option is there we cant afford private.

worst has been so called freind whos teacher have unfreinded her now and thinking shes probably a crap teacher as shes so flipping judgemental and cant consider alternative veiws

preschool every week keep saying great shame.

old lady next door must think im hippy as not lived here long.

everyone else speak to shcked or think im joking.

hope it will get easier.

larrygrylls: Fortunately, I've never been near a teaching college. I agree that the word is woolly and that almost any 18yo will be more proficient in most areas than any 5yo. However, any class of 30 primary children will have a huge range of ability in everything that humans do; society (certainly Gove) tends only to "benchmark" in a very few areas of human endeavour. Someone who does not reach that benchmark at 6 is likely to feel that they are a failure (although they might have become equal to their age peers at 10).

Your example of a child who has dropped from the top quartile to the bottom may not indicate something "awry". Perhaps they have learned to read in a second language over that year or have moved from 0 to Grade II violin. Perhaps they have "reached their potential" in reading - for then, at least.

I do also have a problem with the need to ensure every child "reaches their potential" - in everything, including the ability to torture small animals? People tend to have multiple potentials. If someone could be a brain surgeon but chooses to go into acting or football, is that a waste of their potential?

My aim as an HEing parent was to help my DC identify what they wanted to be doing as they became adults and help them to pass the necessary hoops to achieve that. I do understand that all parents have that responsibility but HEing parents, by not delegating the details to a secondary school, of necessity have to be very involved in how to attain the outcomes.

3asAbird: I hope all goes well for you. You might want to post on the Home Ed board.

One of the big mistakes that most (all?) new HEers do is to buy loads of resources. I'd suggest that you wait and see how your routine settles down. Many people start to HE through necessity and then find that it works so well that they stick with it, so don't panic.

3asA

I was a structered HE person for DS. I did find that HE groups were, as a rule, made up mostly of more autonomous HEdders (though we did go on several group trips, e.g. to museums / sites where a tour had been arranged by the grioup that couldn't be done as an individual). However, through online discussion boards I found local families who were much more 'like me', who we met up with on a more individual basis. So don't assume that just because groups seem to have mostly 'unstructured' HE families, that the structured ones aren't around IYSWIM.

You do also need to remember that a structured home education that keeps a child approximately in line wth school takes MUCH less time than a school day. So you can do a couple of hours maximum of structure (I used to do that while DD was at 2.5 hours of pre-school - and even so there was plenty of time for playing and chat 1:1 with DS within that) and have the rest of the time to be as free and easy as you like!

thanks incognito already on there and the fb mumsnet home ed group and few others

Theres only couple I like as most are very political and fixated on leas and unschooling.

The people I have met so far locally seem freindly yes majority very alternative, lot quite highly qualified.

Did a group visit to restaurant other week and was amazed how everyone got on and how well behaved and polite the kids were, the home ed teenagers particuarly sweet and helpful with younger ones.

met some people from other countries like germany where its illegal there.

The guy n wright stuff made convincing argument

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationopinion/10279339/Home-schooling-if-a-child-gets-bored-at-school-blame-the-system.html

im not sure what proportion home ed is structured, autonmous or unschooled think the structured ones are quite hidden.

in some us states and ireland they have inspections and tests so get lots tips from them as I want structure and my child be ahead when she starts prove the doubters wrong.

my son may have special needs he starts preschool sept and dont know what to do about his schooling so could be home ed for few years yet people tell me im mad, brave, i need me time this sept i should have been a semi free woman but due to their needs have to postphone that and do the selfless and most sensible thin for our family right nw which is home educate we researched, discussed and not taken decision lightly was always backup plan but never expecetd not to get any of 3choices we applied for school 3 os 509metres from our house shes 7th on waitlist. shes no 6 for her older sisters school can see her getting place year 1.

im sahm mum but cost of resources is high wish it could be maybe tax deductable or some sort grant/allowance.im saving the lea money.

Okay, this is very judgemental but my honest thoughts would immediately be that the family are either

a) too cool hippy type people who use henna, call themselves pagan witches, dress in over sized tie-dyed dresses and shirts are vegans and are anti electronic games toys.

And/or

B) are overly protective of their little darlings and want to wrap them up in cotton wool and protect them from the hard cold world out there. Make sure they don't grow up too quickly and be exposed to children from nasty rough families who swear and fight.

Yes this is judgemental, but you did ask!

Ps I wouldn't tell anyone this in real life, I would think it though!

interesting news programme on home education in wales.

www.itv.com/news/wales/2013-09-02/is-home-education-a-realistic-alternative-to-school/

read some amazing home ed/school blogs and some are doing a fab job some trying replicate independent school teaching on the cheap.

the sheer amount trips and work some families cover is clearly more than they do in school

Tilly I don't understand why you are talking about the limited GCSEs people might be able to do at FE college as limiting their entire lives? Loads of people do all sorts of GCSEs/iGCSEs in various ways, and do not at all need to be restricted by their local FE college, so that's just not an issue.

(Yes, it can be a massive hassle, and yes, it can be expensive, but those are separate hurdles!)

One of the big mistakes that most (all?) new HEers do is to buy loads of resources.

I agree that it is a fairly typical mistake. But I'm not sure I'd classify it as a "big" one in the grand scheme of things.

From my perspective one the "big" mistakes to be aware of is retreating from criticism to the extent of defensively wrapping yourself in the protective duvet of pro-HE environments and absorbing Articles of Faith at warp speed 9.

It might feel better. It might be nice to feel like you've found your tribe. It might feel like the perfect shield against the arrows of doubt and criticism regarding your educational choices.

But how nice it feels isn't always the greatest protection against being realistic and honest with yourself about the validity of the "evidence" that supports the micro-choices you are making.

It doesn't necessarily prepare you to less subjectively assess how well your children are learning and developing.

It can sometimes perform a role in enabling parents to reframe why they make the choices they do. Sometimes to an extent that allows them to prioritise their wants over their children's needs, perhaps without even realising that is what they are doing.

It can sometime turn a parent from somebody who made choice out of need, into somebody who is mainly preoccupied with creating themselves an identity and/or notable status as "Home Edder". An identity/status can be harder to give up than "plain old choice", if in the future "not such a good fit after all" rears its head. And it can bugger up your objectivity.

I think I'd be inclined to suggest that a hasty retreat into an environment that can sometimes...

-be an echo chamber
-confuse support with enabling/proselytising/radicalising
-have an agenda that prioritises The Cause over the wellbeing of individual children.
-exacerbate reactions to criticisms of HE to the level of a minor persecution complex

.... is more of a "big" mistake worth watching out for than going over the top at CurrClick or Amazon could ever be.

My best, hard earned, advice would be to avoid allowing parental discomfort in the face of constant criticism to take priority to the extent that tunnel vision can flourish.

Criticism from outsiders might not be fun. (I certainly found it rough going). But it does provide the potential for a parent to self-employ some check and balances, in way that surrounding yourself with wholesale approval cannot.

I have long accepted there is no one educational choice that I can make for my son that will make all of the people, all the time, accepting, (let alone approving) of my educational choices. Somebody, somewhere is always going to think I am beyond the pale.

Never mind. He's worth it.

He is also worth me engaging with opposing views. Not to win. To listen as much as I talk. Because I've found it a very useful tool in making sure I give myself the chance to regularly consider and revisit my choices and see them through less subjective eyes.

Sometime that has lead to changes, sometimes it has more or less confirmed that for the time being, all is as well as it possibly can be. Overall it has helped me with the Thin Skin Issue no end, cos... I think debate, when it has an underlying motive of engagement, can create callouses where you need them, whilst maintaining a degree of necessary penetrability.

Atiaofthejulii

Because it's a lot easier to be blasé about that kind of thing from your position than as an adult MNer who is living the consequences of restricted choices.

I ended up with three GCSEs initially, done over years 11 and 12, before I went on to A-levels. When I realised that my original plan for a degree wasn't what I really wanted, and was very much built around what I could do, not what I wanted to do, after I went off the subjects during A2, I had no more years of free FE left.

Now, as I point out to myself, the world has likely lost nothing. I doubt I ever had the potential to be an biochemist who would find the cure to cancer. Or even a decent GP. But if I had, I would still have had no chance of fulfilling it, as I couldn't do GCSE Chemistry, and then couldn't do A-level Chemistry.

I am now working on achieving my childhood dream career, which is something that will require a degree, and something I gave up on because the initial GCSEs and A-levels weren't options for when I was 16-18. I have had to pay for every single one of these, and I'm now in my first year of the OU. Unlike smug people in this thread, it's not my second degree, and I doubt I'll have completed it before I turn 35. As I am doing it partime around children, jobs, and adult commitments.

Seriously, do not tell ME that people do GCSEs their entire lives. I'm bloody one of them, and it ain't much fun!