To think Park View Academy, must be doing something right ( looking at their statistics)

[smokepole]

I have just looked at the Park View Academy's statistics and have been amazed. I expected to see appalling statistics, yet the statistics are fantastic!

92.5% of pupils English as a second language 59.8% of pupils on FSM yet achieves 75% 5 A*-C Maths and English.

There might be a problem with some religious zealots there, but clearly the school is achieving fantastic results. The school is giving its pupils an education far beyond, what the raw statistics say it should be doing.

The problems should have been dealt with in an efficient and quiet way, it should not have come to the media attention. The school deserves to be looked on as beacon of excellence for its outstanding results.

maybe because they were a) children or b) abusers c) acting on instruction from a corrupt church

you can't expect 'muslims' to be aware of everything anyone is ever doing at any time who also happens to be muslim

it's daft to lump people who don't even have a central organised 'church' together as on mind and body

And damn right I will try to close down a discussion that refers to Muslims as "they" and in pejorative terms.

people did challenge it - why on earth do you think it was exposed - by accident?

I love football - I watch a lot of football and go to matches ... it doesn't make me responsible for Ched Evans's crimes

Nobody's suggesting you're actually responsible for them, gordy ... but as someone who's genuinely involved in (in this case football) it might perhaps be expected that you'd have a view on whatever he's done??

" but at least they deserve some credit for finally addressing it, however late"

Agree Puzzle.

Puzzledandpissedoff that is my point exactly - you wouldn't say 'all football fans and everyone who ever watched or was involved with football is responsible' so why do people always talk about 'Muslims' IE, you know - millions of people who are Muslim

Because they are bigots.

Lots of muslim people have views about extremism and the issues in Brum - maybe try asking them - you will find they vary massively - like all other people tend to - because they are individuals with different views and experiences

some people are good, some are bad, some are wankers, some bastards, some dangerous, some wonderful and kind

^^ that applies no more or less to 'muslims' than it does to any other group

exactly Fanj x

Ah yes, well done for reminding me, Fanjo ... I forgot to mention "bigots" in the litany of victimhood

Gordy, nobody's suggesting that Muslims, either individually or collectively, will necessarily support extremism - even though some undoubtably do. It's just it would be nice to see some widespread opposition to it among those opposed - a sort of "not in my name" if you like

I once raised this exact point with a colleague, who replied that "we don't need to oppose anything - we can destroy the west any time we want" Honest maybe - but helpful? Errr - probably not!!

well I don't see masses of CofE people rising up against Westborough Baptist Church Puzzled but when they do I shall remind my Muslims friends to protest about things that have nowt to do with them as well :)

"It's just it would be nice to see some widespread opposition to it among those opposed - a sort of "not in my name" if you like"

Yes Puzzle - that's pretty much it.

well I don't see masses of CofE people rising up against Westborough Baptist Church

Fool! Have you not noticed the worldwide anger against the WBC.

Fool! seriously - I haven't seen any religious leaders or individual churches issue statements condemning them

I dislike them - I am a humanist - I can't therefore speak for 'Christians'

They are a Christian church - is it wrong to expect Christians to officially comment on their Christianness?

Gordy, granted we've not heard much about Westborough over here, but at least plenty of locals stood up to be counted and opposed the anti-gay crew. I doubt many of the protesters were responsible for what the church had done either, but that didn't stop them making their views known ...

From CBS: Hundreds of students, educators and community members turned out for a counter-protest against the anti-gay Westboro Baptist Church at a District of Columbia high school Monday morning

and the Muslim Council of Britain has made it's views known ...and has repeatedly condemned extremism

Where exactly should this widespread opposition take place?

Do we have to do this every time any Muslim anywhere does anything bad, or is there a chart detailing what needs widespread opposition or not?

Also how big does this widespread opposition have to be, is there an exact figure?

What does this widespread opposition look like? Do we need to be marching back and forth with placards looking ashamed?

Can you define exactly what you mean by "extremism"?

I've just had a look at the Muslim Council of Britain's press release and I think it sums things up very well:www.mcb.org.uk/

www.mcb.org.uk/

Yes gordy; fool!

If you haven't seen the anger, then you haven't looked. There is worldwide disgust at their views.

I have seen no one support their twisted views, have you?

The WBC has less than 100 members and is widely opposed by people all over the world. They are distasteful but pose very little threat to anyone.

I think it is important that we can discuss what is going on in these schools without point scoring and name calling.

It is possible to disagree with the activities and beliefs of others without being a bigot.

There are bits of almost every major religion that I disagree with.

In this case the religion involved is Islam so it is not prejudiced to discuss the role the religion has played in the events.

It does seem that some posters expect all Muslims to be above criticism (and of course others that blame all Muslims for everything)

I don't expect all Muslims to apologise for a few, however when a news event involving Muslims occurs there are those people that try to minimise what has happened (the tombola/hog roast thing being a good example) or try to insist that everything is a media hate campaign against Muslims.

well yes ...other members of their church and other extremist Christian organisations - especially neo nazi ones

and the people INVOLVED in Brum who are FOUND to be guilty of offences should of course say sorry - absolutely

Where exactly should this widespread opposition take place?

Personally I'd say among those most affected - in the schools' case I'd have hoped the parents would be the ones protesting against the extremism (as in culture of fear and intimidation, etc, etc)

Unfortunately the only really outspoken protest we've seen so far has been at Al Hijrah, where parents and ex governors have refused admittance to a fresh governing body appointed to sort out the mess - and how interesting that still nobody's chosen to comment on that ...

the use of the word 'extremism' seems very confused. I don't think the schools are training grounds for terrorist but I don't want religious dogma/superiority in any schools.

I don't like Allison Pearson but she quotes this song today and it applies to both sides of this argument:

“You’ve got to be taught to hate and fear?
You’ve got to be taught from year to year?
It’s got to be drummed in your dear little ear
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late
Before you are six or seven or eight?
To hate all the people your relatives hate?
You’ve got to be carefully taught.”