To think Park View Academy, must be doing something right ( looking at their statistics)

[smokepole]

I have just looked at the Park View Academy's statistics and have been amazed. I expected to see appalling statistics, yet the statistics are fantastic!

92.5% of pupils English as a second language 59.8% of pupils on FSM yet achieves 75% 5 A*-C Maths and English.

There might be a problem with some religious zealots there, but clearly the school is achieving fantastic results. The school is giving its pupils an education far beyond, what the raw statistics say it should be doing.

The problems should have been dealt with in an efficient and quiet way, it should not have come to the media attention. The school deserves to be looked on as beacon of excellence for its outstanding results.

"the comparison is in abuse of power via religion not that a sex crime is equal to teaching racism and sexism."

100% agree. There was a complete abuse of trust. Parents trusted the teachers and govenors at the Trojan Horse schools.

Another comparision is that its wrong to blame muslim children and their families for what happened at Park View. It is wrong to blame catholic parents for their children being sexually abused by priests.

I am not equating a sex crime to the teaching of racism and sexism. I am equating the fact that in both the child abuse scandels and Trojan Horse children and their families were victims. I am equating the fact that a small minority of any religion are bad people.

If you choose to be professionally offended by this post then so be it.

Just thinking about it, if I'd moved abroad to stay abroad I'd be doing my best to integrate my DCs into this new country. Not assuming that their life will always be separate (just in the local community) - or perhaps they jet between the UK and their home country so don't feel a need to integrate.

Would you suddenly stop speaking to your children in English? Would you ban them from speaking English to their grandparents?

Even if you did, their first language will always be English. Having English as a second language does not mean their English is not fluent.

Have you heard of Michel Roux Jr? He has English as a second language, are you saying he is not 'integrated'?

Seems to me that this is a non faith school but given the demographic it was trying to impose a culture by way of look and feel by the back door.

Not on - no faith school should be in the state sector. I say this not because I'm an athiest (I'm not) but because my child is the type of child lauded by our governments as this very normal multicultural kid, but yet is not enough of one culture or another to ever benefit going to a local school in my london area (saturated with faith schools).

I'm horrified.

Don't give a damnded about dress or what kids learn in their faiths - my kid is discriminated against because he's not enough of one race or culture to get into a local school. Yet he is this model of multiculturalism that other parents and politicans leach off.

my personal view is that parents who wholeheartedly go for the faith school scenario and defend them to the hilt are actually parents who are leaching off my son's multicularism and I freaking hate this. They are benefit recipient of my tax that my kid can't tap into.

I'm also still waiting for a definition of what extremism is.

I've no idea whether an 'official' definition exists, but personally I'd say religious extremism is when people attempt to enforce religious conformity on others, either by physical force or abuse of power.

This is of course not confined to Muslim extremism, it's a feature of most religions that I can think of.

I don't think that there is any clear cut definition of extremism. When does a normal religion become a cult? When does religious teaching become brain washing.

The problem with Trojan horse was the unwillingness to eduate children that other religions exist and to encourage tolerance towards those of different faiths. Your local bog standard faith school up the road should teach children that other people have different beliefs even if they don't share those beliefs.

I've no idea whether an 'official' definition exists, but personally I'd say religious extremism is when people attempt to enforce religious conformity on others, either by physical force or abuse of power. This is of course not confined to Muslim extremism, it's a feature of most religions that I can think of

Well said, purplyblue ... I've rarely seen it better put

The schools did teach about other religions. Ofsted's quibble with Park View was that from year 9 onwards, R.E was overly focused on Islam, ignoring that from year 9 onwards, RE is a completely optional subject anyway.

More importantly, there is no evidence that the schools encouraged intolerance.

This is the problem when people start bandying words like extremism around, things start to get twisted to fit the "facts".

I think Icimoi's post upthread here is probably the best summation of what occurred
"I heard an interesting comment on the radio to the effect that a number of these schools are in pretty rough areas, and the emphasis on religion has been a reaction to that: parents support this because they hope that, if their children are encouraged to adhere to Muslim values, they will have a strong sense of morality imbued in them and be deterred from joining gangs, experimenting with drugs, and getting led astray generally."

Salma Yaqoob on Question Time last night said that if these schools had been in leafy areas, this would be seen more as an issue of "pushy parents", rather then extremism.

Frequently we hear about the difficulties children face because parents aren't interested or engaged in their education.

These parents were interested and were engaged. It's possible that they were too pushy, too influential and that there were problems with governance. That could have been rectified, guidelines asserted and clear boundaries being delineated.

Instead these parents have been told that they are failing their children and their morals and values are insufficient, so their children need to be taught new ones. I think that the message this sends out to these parents and children is nothing short of disastrous.

Goshanne - do you think that anything going on in these school is wrong?

I am asking that question while being aware that you can't hear a tone of voice in my question, I am genuinely interested and not asking in an accusatory way

If there are issues with governance then that is wrong.

If staff are being bullied and intimidated then then that is wrong.

If the National Curriculum is not being taught, or taught correctly, then that is wrong.

Accusations of "not preparing the children for life in the UK" that seem to have been specifically constructed for these inspections, I think are nonsensical.

"The schools did teach about other religions. Ofsted's quibble with Park View was that from year 9 onwards, R.E was overly focused on Islam, ignoring that from year 9 onwards, RE is a completely optional subject anyway. "

RE is not an optional subject in the UK. Its not complusry to do a GCSE in RE, but it is complusory to have some RE lessons, just like its complusory to have PE lessons even if the child doesn't do a qualification in PE in key stage 4. In a lot of schools RE gets merged with PHSCE and citizenship. The whole thing is rather wolley and open to abuse.

"Instead these parents have been told that they are failing their children and their morals and values are insufficient, so their children need to be taught new ones. I think that the message this sends out to these parents and children is nothing short of disastrous."

The Govenors and teachers failed the children - not the parents. There is no place for victim blaming.

Where do you get it from the parents have been told that they have failed their children? Do you know what the parents' morals and values are? Are they really that different to you and me?

I imagine that parents at the 21 schools are a very mixed group even if a lot of them share the same religion. Just because two people share the same religion does not mean that the share the same opinons or concience. As someone said upthread they are Muslims and not the Borg.

Not preparing children for life in the UK is ridiculous, I agree, after all they do already live here.

you can live in the UK but be isolated from all but your minority community. DP worked with children like this in London.

school needs to help children like this get ready for life in the UK.

Accusations of "not preparing the children for life in the UK" that seem to have been specifically constructed for these inspections, I think are nonsensical

But gosh, surely ALL education is about preparing children for life in the country concerned? I'm genuinely struggling to understand why you'd feel Ofsted's interest in this area is "specifically constructed" for the schools mentioned, when it's actually something they're obliged to consider everywhere?

Granted they'll pick up on issues where they feel this isn't being done properly, but again that would apply to any school - so how does this equate to particular ones being singled out?

There are many children who live in rural or isolated communities and probably don't mix with outsiders much.

In fact, if you are poor, live on an estate, go to school on that estate, only know people from that estate, you're not mixing with outsiders much either.

Many people live very small lives in terms of interaction. There's probably a sizable chunk of people who don't watch the news or read newspapers either.

But if you are white British, that is deemed as acceptable and not something to be shamed in the national press for.

However, if you are an Asian Muslim, even if you speak English, your parents work, you have access to the media, you live in a massive city, you seen as failing and needing more intervention then any of the other examples I have given.

Do you honestly think, if you spoke to these children, that they would be hugely different from your own?

DP worked with children in london:

1. whose parents spoke no/little English
2. who had never travelled on the Underground
3. who walked everywhere (once a year car journey to airport)
4. whose father had multiple families

or ever travelled on a bus. they walked everywhere because that what your mum did in Bangladesh.

Good for your DP. That is highly unlikely to be the case for most of these children.

The fact that you feel so comfortable extrapolating your DP's experience to these children is part of the problem.

GoshAnneGorilla
Why are you so defensive. Do you have children at one of the Trojan Horse schools?

I am confused what you are arguing for. You seem to be arguing against everyone. I said to the affect that you cannot treat muslims as a homogenous group.

The fact that muslims are not homogenous group is all the more reason that its not acceptable to impose a particular flavour of Islam on an entire community school.

This is the link for payhembury primary school. I admire them that they have taken OFSTED's critism on board. They have not stuck their head in the sand and critised OFSTED.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651108/Rural-school-deemed-white-Ofsted-visits-London-mix-ethnic-pupils.html

I think it sounds a lovely idea and hopefully children from both schools will benefit. The children from the london school will have the opportunity to visit Devon and learn what it is like to live in a rural village.

I agree, the devon thing sounds great.

The Devonshire school has not been dubbed dangerous extremists who are contrary to the values in the UK, though, have they?

I wonder why?

if they had said 'black women were prostitutes' and none of the parents complained, I think the devon school would be seen as full of 'dangerous extremists who are contrary to the values in the UK'.

surely it is the (reported) actions that have lead to the situation?

The difference between Park View and the Devonshire school was that they were prepared to listen to criticism and do something about it. They made the effort to find children from a multicultural background to mix with. The Devonshire school were not actively racist, sexist or any kind of discrimination. They had a school in the middle of the countryside with 100% white children and had no way of changing their catchment.