To wonder why social services put so much emphasis on a tidy home?

[superstarheartbreaker]

Have read a few threads where the poor op has been worried as ss criticise the state of a house. Assuming the house does not look like an episode from Hoarder Next Door, Aibu to believe that a tidy home is not necessarily a happy home?

Unsure
I'd do it under the circumstances you described.
Sometimes I think the parents need a kick up the arse. Also it could open the door to them getting some help with the depression etc.. SS are not all monsters.

An old friend of mine had them visit a few times and it really sorted her out.
She had a son and was a single parent. While she took care of the babys feeding/changing/loving needs she had really let her flat become dirty.
She had a dog that moulted constantly and the hairs would end up all over the baby, on his clothes, his skin even inside his vest it was disgusting it often looked like he had a mini hairy chest :( His buggy, cot and blankets were also covered. I tried to gently tell her that it wasn't acceptable ON the baby and she should make sure he was completely (as much as possible) hair free.
A few months later SS paid a visit, I think the HV reported her eventually.

Anyway SS came out - a surprise visit. They could see she wasn't cleaning the floors, sofa, beds etc.. and they warned her that if she didn't get things sorted and work with them they'd have to consider if she was fit to care for her son. To cut a long story short basically they asked her about rehoming the dog - she wouldn't so they got her (and me because I helped gut the flat) to deep clean from top to bottom - they gave her 2 old baby gates to use for the dog to keep him out of some rooms and even gave her an old dog kennel that a friend of theirs was getting rid of to keep the dog in the yard a bit more. She began to hoover every day after that to keep on top of it, even the dog got the once over with the soft brush on the hoover :) They also sent on her parenting courses and I'm sure she also done some hygiene ones too.
My friend never let it go back to how bad it was before and was initially pissed off she'd been reported but ultimately grateful.

Having read about such varying standards between social workers on this thread, i think i'd be inclined to film any visit by a social worker as proof of the exact condition of my home and what was said.

Thing is I think it would be really obvious where the report came from. The neighbours who are also concerned also want to help but I think everyone is too scared to make the first move!

How old are the children Unsure? It might not be so obvious if they are school age. Dd1 almost reported us to SS once, by telling the school we'd not been feeding her. We had. She was in a huff because we'd run out of Cheerios so she'd had cheese on toast instead

The school's welfare officer called round for "a chat" saw we had plenty of food and the house was in a reasonable state and left it at that.

Mum may assume the school reported them, based on something the children said, or you could talk to the school and let them know what you know and they will probably report it for you.

2 are primary school age and 1 just under a year old

I think you'd need the permission of anyone entering your home to be able to use it as evidence Single but I can see your point.
I don't imagine many would mind tbh - I wouldn't if I was doing my job properly and honestly.

INeed That's ridiculous about the beds.
My own 3dc have had to sleep on matresses after a fuck up on the delivery of new beds. After I threw out the frames expecting it to be for just a few days, it turned out closer to 2.5 weeks. Everywhere was clean with fresh bedding etc.. Kids were more than happy - they could bounce all they wanted (for once) without getting told off :)
I'd have been mightily pissed off if SS visited and said something bad about it.

Sigh, this thread is dire, as someone who works daily in this field a spotlessly clean home is low on the least of the things S/W's have to assess. Some of the the key issues, considered not in any particular order will be as follows

1. is the child safe?
2. Why is the child not safe?
3. What can be done to make the child safe?
4. What support can be put in place?
5. If support is put in place and this does not work, what is the alternative, family members, foster care etc.

S/W's do not care if you haven't hovered, cleaned your windows or have a bowl of washing in the sink.

As others have said the issues such as filthy, and i mean filthy home where a baby is crawling, no food, drug paraphernalia, no bed for the child so sleeping on the floor are the kind of things S/W's see every single day. Including homes that animal lovers wouldn't want their pets in, and yet children have to live in. Yes people live like this for various reasons and this has to be evidenced. Some of the misinformation on this thread is seriously ridiculous.

I think if people want to film a home visit it is fine, if there are safeguarding concerns what difference will it make other than provide further evidence. Many of the parents assessed who's children are at risk,are unable to see how their actions impact their children. I would welcome transparency in children's court as i think the general public needs a reality check on children's safeguarding and some of the abuse these children are put through. It would also educate people on procedures that SS use. Alot of people slag off SS but would not have the stomach to do what S/W's have to see and do on a daily basis.

It's not really dire serendipity the vast majority of contributors have tried to explain the difference between normal mess and serious filth.and have made it clear that normal mess even mess that pushes past usual lived in waiting for a good clean levels would not be an issue at all.

Fortunatly the average person will have never seen a house that you and I would describe as real serious filth this often means that they have little to no understanding of the type of house that would cause say a police officer or social worker to have serious concerns requiring action.

Unfortunately this tends to mean that someone who has lower standards than them (but that you or I would have no issue with at all) often gets described as living in a filthy un habitable hovel and OMG lets call children's services.

With the posters who have shared their stories of problems well it would be utterly ridiculous to even consider that any one profession is 100% filled with decent, none power crazy, rational, pleasant,honest and sensible people and that includes social work.

I would also welcome filming and I totally agree that people should be compleatly free to film/record home meetings and use the film after,I would have never had any issue being filmed and nor would I now. But unfortunately quite a few would consider it a hostile action that indicates distrust and a lack of willingness to cooperate and that's a huge shame.

Ove half term I could have had problems if ss was involved with us if dirty home was an issue.
We gutted ds2s bedroom and over the week made built in furniture for him.

He slept on a matress on the floor under a duvet with spots of paint(it has now been binned).
We had to cut wood in the dining room on the table so sawdust everywhere.
Every waking minute was spent painting, measuring, building so house became a pit.
I was washing up in between so dishes everywhere.
Dd got fed up of paint in the bathroom sink where we had rinsed brushes and cleaned it.

The last couple of days I could have cleaned/tidied but decided we would get more benefit by spending time together and we worked our way through a number of board games. I also taught dd to play chess.

My priority is making sure my dc are loved, cared for and happy which I suspect is what ss are concerned about.

I agree with everyone who is trying to make the distinction between 'just a bit messy' = normal and fine and 'dangerously unhygienic' = possibly a police matter.

In fact, the majority of cases that I deal with in court are prompted by the police going round and taking pictures with a view to considering criminal prosecution - bags of rotting rubbish, shit on the floor, urine soaked mattresses etc, etc.

The test for state involvement is significant harm - we try to explain it here.

www.childprotectionresource.org.uk/category/the-law/key-legal-principles/significant-harm-key-legal-principles/

Sadly there are SW - just as in any other profession or walk of life - who don't have a great manner, who can be bossy, rude or abrupt. If you get one of those just try to smile and no dad make sure that it is very clearly set out to you what they want you to do and why.

'Smile and nod' sorry. It's a great technique for many areas of life.

Sigh, it's such a shame that these threads always arouse defensive posts, which try and close down perfectly reasonable discussion.

That's the only 'dire' thing about this thread. This was a really mold breaking thread with genuine responses and considered discussion, versus the all out fights that usually break out.

"Some of the misinformation on this thread is seriously ridiculous."

No. Really. Just no.

Discussion, personal experiences and a general consensus that:
A. Like every profession, social work has good and bad people working in it, so yes, people do have bad stories which are made worse by not being able to talk about it, or by people denying the experience
B. everyday mess is something that people can view in different ways, but truly awful conditions do happen, and are truly harmful for children and an indication of other problems

... That isn't ridiculous. Nor are the people that shared their personal and upsetting stories.

Here is a recent case you might find interesting. I think they had 19 dogs? which gives you an idea.

www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2014/05/29/parents-in-filthy-conditions-fail-to-have-children-returned-from-care/