To wonder why social services put so much emphasis on a tidy home?

[superstarheartbreaker]

Have read a few threads where the poor op has been worried as ss criticise the state of a house. Assuming the house does not look like an episode from Hoarder Next Door, Aibu to believe that a tidy home is not necessarily a happy home?

Well I guess initially I need some clarification as to whether what I think is bad is actually bad I think!

Yeah, I'd do that first too, have as much info as possible.

I had to report someone a long time ago but she was a neighbour, I could see with my own eyes. Final straw, (and I mean FINAL) was when the young girls she was leaving her dc to look after started beating them in the street one day. I HAD to make the call.

Social workers have never been concerned about my house and untidy would sum it up on it's best days, complete with holes in the doors and walls. On bad days, one of my childrens bedrooms looks like a bomb has gone off in it (and it smells awful)

Unclean is a problem, but for serious concerns, you're looking at excrement on the floor etc

As to Norway, of course they take kids into care. I have to say, I've seen the DM printing "horrendous Norwegian social workers steal children" before, more than once (I don't belive what the DM say btw, but I just thought I'd point out that it's not only the UK that has groups of people complaining about child stealing SS). As to no adoption, adoption is the best outcome for a minority of children. Having a system without adoption is not helping those children.

DS went to a friend's house when he was about 9 and came back saying that there was broken glass in the hallway, no loo paper and that his friend didn't have a toothbrush. When I eventually met the mother she had black teeth! I don't doubt that there was other stuff that DS didn't notice. (I told the school and they said this family were 'known' to SS)

This is doubtless the kind of thing that SS are interested in.

Thing is I'm not really sure it's a social services issue. The kids are well loved, always happy and really really are lovely children it's just the conditions they live in. It's not a mess, I'd go as far as saying it's unhygienic, no clean bedding, no curtains on windows, the floors etc are filthy there's never any room to sit down, kids are often dirty looking, dressed I appropriately for the weather. They are always buying them new toys etc but other things that matter more aren't catered for.

Their neighbours have also voiced concerns and we all want to help them out. My DH went and tidied the house for them yesterday whilst they were out and the neighbour did 5 loads of washing for them. They clearly arent coping but I also know she thinks they are coping iyswim so any offers of help get knocked back.

If there is no clean bedding and the kids are inappropriately dressed and unclean then their basic needs are being neglected. Those things are most certainly a social services issue.

Oh dear, I feel really really awful about this. There are other issues which I can't really go into here as would be really identifiable but which (along with comments on this thread) I think have confirmed my thoughts that something really isn't right.

Unsure: you shouldn't feel bad. Some people just need a bit of help to recognise that there is a problem and get on track. I have experience in social work and when I was working we had families like the one you have described and often they just needed some help in recognising the problem and getting things straight. We used to send in a few support workers to help the families do a big clean up (with their permission and once they had accepted there was a problem). The families would start off very defensive but usually were very happy once the work had been done and sometimes said that they never would have been able to manage it without help as it had gotten too bad.
We never used to think that a dirty and chaotic house automatically means that children should be removed. However, children do need clean appropriate clothing, clean bedding and reasonable living conditions. Sometimes families just need a little help to sort these things out. No child wants to turn up at school looking or smelling dirty and wearing inappropriate ill fitting clothing. It's better to try and get help so the family can meet the children's needs in a better way.

It isn't always about tidy/untidy or clean/dirty.

Someone I knew always had great gadgets, jewellery, a motorbike and a nice car. Parents and children were always dressed well. If you stayed downstairs at their house you'd have thought it was a fairly normal family home.

But upstairs the children had no bedding and slept in bare rooms on bare mattresses on the floor (parents had a bed and bedding). They had few toys and no books.

The house told a story about the family, which was Dad was God, and a domineering, difficult God at that, Mum was away with the fairies and more concerned to keep in with God than anything else, and putting on a good show of family life was far more important than recognising and meeting the children's needs.

I'm sure if they'd been reported Mum and Dad would have claimed, convincingly, that their house was fine and it was a malicious complaint.

unsurewhattodotohelp

Can you try and describe what you describe as dirty and inappropriate clothing?

Perhaps talking about those aspects will give you a bit of confidence as to what to do.

Dirty as in the baby and toddlers faces are never washed after eating, the babys toe and fingernails are always too long and black with dirt etc under them, they are bathed max once a week the parents both have hygiene issues too, greasy hair and body odor which is what makes me think they don't see it as a problem.

Inappropriate clothing as in tshirts in winter with no coat or jumper. We went round the one day and the baby had conjuctivitis so bad it had crusted his eyes together and he couldn't open them : (

I have to tread really really carefully as there are depression issues with both of the parents

Other times we have been round there has been beakers of milk on the work surfaces going rancid that the children were asking to drink. There was also a large pair of scissors literally in the middle of the floor that the baby and toddler could easily have gotten hold of

I'd definitely call for some help for them, Unsure. It sounds like they could really do with some support.

I'm not overthinking this am I? What I'm hoping doesn't cloud my judgement is that quite frankly I can't stand the mum, she opinionated and some of the suggestions she has given me in the past with regards to parenting I really don't agree with, I have never suffered with depression so really cannot comment but 2/3 children are at school every day so she does have time to clean so that's not the issue.

They also both have Avery strange sense of humour which they claim is their way of coping with things but saying they let their baby choke for a few seconds to get him used to eating lumps really isn't my idea of humour!

Yeah you need to report that. You can do it anonymously on the NSPCC website.

What SW reports say and what people having their children taken away say are not the same thing.

I know of one where the mother's solicitor pointed out that the reason there was no food in the house was because the mum and children had returned from holiday the day before.

I can understand not having fresh milk and bread because you have just got in, but 24 hours later having nothing? And no evidence that you have fed your children, something like take away wrappers or a pizza box in the bin.

Unsure, I'm a social worker and what you are describing is neglect. You must report this, sorry.

I think if people are expecting a visit they panic and start tidying imo that is not what ss are looking for

Mrsjayy

I was a social worker for a long time and tbh the ones who know they have been reported or are about to get a visit so go hell to leather cleaning and tidying are the ones who would have given me the most hope.

Someone whose eyes get opened by knowing a report is happening who takes a good look around and thinks " shit this really is crap lets get it sorted" and manages to do it before a visit usually equals someone whose going to accept it was unacceptable and has the will to change and keep on top of it with a little support, it's the ones who carry on as if its ok that are more troubling.

Oh ok yeah I can see that but do you not think that s slightly lived I house is better than a sparkling clean one

In my limited experience they didn't care. We actually phoned SS ourselves to ask for help (both of us struggling due to injury and illness) and various people came round, we did apologise for the state of the house - not quite as bad as Hoarders Next Door but pretty bad, piles of stuff everywhere, laundry all over, no clear surfaces, random stuff on the floor, rubbish/crockery not dealt with etc.

They were never fussed and actually said they couldn't help under the children's social care remit as they could see the DCs were well looked after despite the mess. The DCs have what they need, they've never been without clean uniform etc.

We also had comments more than once that they were pleased to see toys strewn everywhere out rather than it being an empty, seemingly non-child-friendly living room.

mrsj

Absolutely yes I do.

Most of you won't even be able to get your heads around some of the states we see,and I don't mean that in a offensive way more a hopeful way.

Reading a lot of the threads on here about housework and the drama tiny little things cause its quite clear that lots of people are very over the top about what a real problem is and referrals about state of the home tend to back that view up unless the referrals came from a police officer (IME they are nearly always bang on).

I've had referrals (usually from family members) that you would think described a out door cave type crack den when you get there no major clean up has happened but the mess is just things that can be sorted in a quick hour clean (so perfectly normal for those who do housework once a week) and really not an issue.

Would there be an issue with mattresses on the floor per se? I saw it mentioned upthread as a red flag, but so long as the child has clean bedding and a tidy room with things to play with, the absence of a bed base would surely not be an issue?

It may be different these days but in a otherwise clean tidy cared for home with obviously cared for children with a reason to be only using a mattress then no it wouldn't have raised any concerns with me

Reputable in the initial report that Ss made.on me it claims that the children didn't have adequaye beds.
In fact, they have bunkbeds but they'd pulled the mattress off and were playing a game
The clean bedding was on the bottom bunk, it just needed 5 mins to put it all back in the right places.
In the first meeting we had I explained to yhe head sw what the bed situation was. He was not.impressed with how the sw had dresses it up as 'no beds'