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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why social services put so much emphasis on a tidy home?

139 replies

superstarheartbreaker · 06/06/2014 21:14

Have read a few threads where the poor op has been worried as ss criticise the state of a house. Assuming the house does not look like an episode from Hoarder Next Door, Aibu to believe that a tidy home is not necessarily a happy home?

OP posts:
Stinkle · 06/06/2014 21:39

Not in my experience they don't.

I'm a foster carer and social services are in and out of my home constantly. Sometimes they're lucky and it's tidy, but my social worker always seems to come round just as the kids have come home from school and the house looks like a bomb has gone off in every room. He's even climbed over DD2's pile of sofa cushions without comment

Safe and a basic levels of hygiene - yes

The state of a home can indicate whether parents are coping or are overwhelmed, along with a million other things, but in my experience, we're talking ancient dog shit on the kitchen floor and mouse droppings behind the sofa sort of thing

weatherall · 06/06/2014 21:40

As with the general population, with social workers there is a degree of subjectivity as to what one person would describe as messy/ unhygienic.

An assessment of living conditions is part of the assessment of the child and family. Things that will be checked for are beds for everyone with clean sheets; food in cupboards and fridge. They may also check the bins to see if food is being eaten. Signs of drug or heavy alcohol use will be noted as will a bath/ shower that doesn't looked like it is used regularly.

However I have overheard some very odd comments from social workers (who have never had DCs) who have totally unrealistic expectations of homes with young children.

If I knew someone who was expecting a visit I would advise to err in caution and expect an anal OCD zealot.

TestingTestingWonTooFree · 06/06/2014 21:43

People might worry OP, but it doesn't mean they're right to. In my experience child protection social workers only act when home conditions are really dire. I've never seen a case (get to court) where there weren't other concerns too. SWs see a lot, I'd imagine that their standards are pretty achievable, I've never met a Hyacinth Bucket.

Nicknacky · 06/06/2014 21:44

I think like police, sw generally have an idea of when a house is downright unfit for children as apposed to normal children mess. I don't think you have to have children t see the difference.

They are in and out houses constantly and in my experience, it has to be really bad before action is taken. Certainly, I have referred families for this reason and the sw has later went in and has not been unduly alarmed.

xalyssx · 06/06/2014 21:50

I am currently being helped by a social worker as I have a premature baby. She said that my house was fine, messy but clean, and enough room for both children to play in.

Maryz · 06/06/2014 21:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BolshierAyraStark · 06/06/2014 21:52

Really? Who has a tidy house with kids in it?-I gave up a looooong time ago-shit... Hope they don't call round Hmm

BolshierAyraStark · 06/06/2014 21:53

Sure it's not clean rather than tidy that is focused on?

whynowblowwind · 06/06/2014 21:55

I had a friend with an absolutely disgusting house - I still can't believe SS hadn't acted, really - it was awful.

ouryve · 06/06/2014 21:58

I think that they basically want to see that the kids aren't picking up week old cake cases and eating the crumbs off them. (Admits that the only reason that the popcorn crumbs on my floor from DS1's snack before tea aren't that bad is because DS2 ate them).

ICanSeeTheSun · 06/06/2014 21:58

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2155898/How-live-like-Inside-disgusting-home-parents-forced-children-grow-squalor.html

I think SS are looking at this type of mess.

lougle · 06/06/2014 21:59

It's about health and safety, not housekeeping.

Selks · 06/06/2014 22:02

I'm a SW. Social workers have far more important things to be worried about than the state of someone's house.
A house would have to be in a terrible state before it became a concern in its own right - think broken unuseable furniture, no heating, no bedding, real filth such as excrement or broken glass etc; or a house in a bad state but with other concerns present e.g. neglect.
OP you would do well to try to become more reliably informed before forming opinions...just saying.

Selks · 06/06/2014 22:09

Tidyness is not a concern. Cleanliness is not necessarily a concern - but safety and basic needs being met most certainly is, and that is what SWs are concerned with.
I have never met a SW yet who is concerned whether a bed is made.

IneedAwittierNickname · 06/06/2014 22:16

Sadly.Selks I have. And I know people.probably won't believe me, but the sw said in all the tac meetings that they had NO concerns about the children, other than the house. Their basic needs were met, they were clean, their clothes and beds.were clean. They were fed. They were at school, homework done etc etc.

It was literally just the house (which I'll admit was bad, not as bad as the one linked on page 1, but bad)

wherethewildthingis · 06/06/2014 22:18

I'm a social worker too and truly you cannot imagine some of the homes I have been in. And yes, people nearly always say that we are being picky or obsessed with tidyness. People rarely admit being a poor parent or abusive parent OP- much easier to blame nosy and bossy social workers and rant on the internet

SantasLittleMonkeyButler · 06/06/2014 22:21

I know of two families where the DCs were reported to have been removed by SS because "the house is messy". Because of the job I was doing at the time, I happened to know (but obviously couldn't and wouldn't share) more of the circumstances than most of the other mums at the school gate, who were gossiping about how awful it was that SS could take a child away from loving parents because the house is a little messy.

In one case the "messy" was dog shit & used heroin needles in every room - including the DCs bedroom (it wasn't commonly known that mum was a drug user). In the other case the "messy" was a health hazard house - piles of rubbish, broken glass, mouldy food packaging, dog urine & faeces, child urine & faeces, bedrooms so full of junk and smelling so vile that no-one was using them and all 6 family members (2 adults & 4 DCs) were sleeping in the lounge. No lightbulbs, no usable bath (bath full of junk), blocked toilet etc. etc.

Obviously it is preferable for the parents involved to let people believe that SS have been overly picky or heavy-handed than to admit the truth. I suspect this happens all too often. There is often someone complaining "SS stole my children" in Take A Break, Chat, That's Life! etc. etc., and the parents' story always sounds as though they have been greatly wronged. I bet that in most cases, if the SW was permitted the right to explain the situation from their POV (which obviously they can't), we might see that there are very much two sides to the story.

WhataMistakeaToMakea · 06/06/2014 22:21

Toys and stuff spread around is fine. Bags of rubbish/ and used nappies on the floors is not - especially with a toddler running round it all. I normally just worry about whether a home is hygienic / what the kids could be getting their hands on.

SantasLittleMonkeyButler · 06/06/2014 22:25

X-post with wherethewildthingis there.

PandaFeet · 06/06/2014 22:34

I have been under SS and my house was always a bit of a tip and it was never mentioned at all.

There were other things mentioned by one social worker that were so ridiculous that even her colleagues dismissed them straightaway. Like she arrived while my child was having her mid morning nap and I had Gilmore Girls on. When she arrived, I went and got DD up, put the TV on mute and we got on with the visit. She then complained that I had unsuitable programs on the TV instead of CBeebies. WTF?) But the house was never a concern. I don't even think they checked DDs room or cot once.

Parsnipcake · 06/06/2014 22:43

I am a foster carer and my house is very messy a lot of the time - with 5 children it just can't stay tidy for long. No SW has ever said anything but positive things, and they are here most days.

They are concerned by lots of animal faeces, or other hazards that would mean a child couldn't play safely, but not general hygiene, unless a child has an immunity issue.

deakymom · 06/06/2014 22:48

i have read a report from social services where the "overt cleanliness" in the house was of concern the lady in question was agoraphobic and her children were at school what the hell was she supposed to do all day? then they attended in a school holiday and the report was she engages well with the children but they need to go our more okay fine they went to there friends house for a playdate and it became passing off children to friends or family our concern is she is not engaging with her children as she should can she win? hell no i instructed her to ask for another social worker due to personality clash she got a new one who suggested she actually got help for her agoraphobia the kids were not a problem at all

with some you cant win

smellyfishead · 06/06/2014 22:58

It causes problems if you tidy up too much as exdp did just before a one off sw visit. Reading back through the notes taken it read "little evidence of toys" I was gobsmacked, my whole living room sideboard is full of toys, I have game shelves with board games on and under all the dcs beds are 4 plastic storage containers filled to overflow with lego, nerf guns etc had she actually bothered to query I would of shown her!! I would presume normal mess is ok, eg a few dishes from eating, toys out, clean washing about etc just not extreme filth like filthy kitchens, bathrooms, bedlinen

bloodyteenagers · 06/06/2014 23:12

For every one decent sw with common sense, there are a couple who haven't got a clue. I won't bore you with all the details but here are some of the corkers I have experienced first hand. (SW involved because of maliciousness and also at a separate occasion to fast track help for eldest dc.)

Washing up in the sink. Yes there was. Either while the sw was here the dc's had just finished and the plates popped in the sink. Or I was cooking and putting equipment used into a sink of soapy water.. I think this is a normal thing.

Food on the side. This was again while I was cooking, and the same occasion as above. The food was what was prepped waiting to be cooked. Again, a normal thing.

Outside space cluttered... You are going to love this. This also warranted a revisit.. Because the crime, washing drying.

My bed. Not the dc's, but mine. The mattress was bare. This was unacceptable. Although if sw had come a bit later, all the mattresses would have been like this. It was explained why, but not good enough and a clear indication that more intervention was needed. It didn't matter that the mattress was being aired. As I regularly do. When I mentioned hoovering said mattress, she looked like I had slapped her and stuck a lemon in her mouth.

Plus many, many more grasping at straws issues. Yes I complained. I resorted to taking pictures with the sw in every room. Shame though they would forget and put more crap like above in their reports. Yes, each complaint was investigated. Yes every time, I received a written apology assuring me this would not happen again and changes would be made.

Lancashiregal10 · 06/06/2014 23:41

My best friend had a baby a year ago
First health visitor came round- "house is too messy, you need to clean up more or I will have to think about taking this further"
Friends completely panics and tidies house from top to bottom and keeps it spic and span this next health visitor appointment only to get a different health visitor
Second health visitor - "house is too tidy you must have something to hide or be depressed"
WTF