to wonder WHAT exactly it is about a breastfeeding mother that some find offensive?

[MistressDeeCee]

www.itv.com/news/london/2014-06-06/breastfeeding-mother-in-tears-over-barrage-of-verbal-abuse/

Writer the "convenience" of bf was wildly exaggerated as far as I was concerned.

How come phaedra?

It's much more convenient for me to make a bottle of formula than it was to sit there with my screaming baby, trying desperately to get her to latch when she hadn't eaten for nearly 24 hours because despte everything, she wouldn't latch.

I go back to my earlier statement, babies are being fed! Hooray! Who cares what they're fed? They're being fed!

BF is massively convenient if it works for you, inconvenient if it doesn't, surely?

Similarly, I found it perfectly possible to feed w/o needing a cushion, sofa arm, etc to prop me/baby up and get into a comfortable position - I didn't realise that wasn't the case for everyone until watching a friend trying to get her baby latched on w/o that.

writer did you read my earlier post? Bf made me feel sick and it was very painful,my son fed constantly, I was exhausted, I had mastitis, I was barely able to leave the house for almost 3 months.

I didn't understand the feeling sick bit and only found out recently on here it was a reaction to the oxytocin rush.

And like Nexus' niece, assistance offered by HV -you're not trying hard enough, and I won't tell you how to make the transition to ff for when you return to full time work.

It was like that for me Moomin. I had to get myself into a good position with a V pillow underneath the baby and couldn't do it without getting my whole breast out then try to get him latched on while he screamed and squirmed.

That was in my own home. I didn't think Costa's was ready for that.

I do wonder if some of the heat about breastfeeding in public is actually partly fuelled by the hatred of some people for actually seeing babies or small children in public at all, combined with underlying misogyny? I.e. it's a wider thing than breastfeeding, just that breastfeeding is a convenient target.

Some weirdos do seem to feel they "own" all public space and should be allowed to police who gets to use it. (E.g. weird fucked up shit like "shouldn't be allowed" about an 'unattractive' woman.)

LadyNexus, are you suggesting that you know better than every single study done on the topic of breast milk?! You do realise, don't you, that not a single bit of scientific research ever undertaken has ever shown that formula is equal to the benefits of breast milk? For example, breast milk changes constantly throughout the day, to respond to what a child requires. Your example of a couple of people proves zero.

Studies say all kinds of shit, it generally doesn't mean anything Um, yeah, it does mean stuff. It means that things have been rigorously and repeatedly proven to be true. That means a lot, ffs.

Now, I'm not saying there's anying wrong with FF. There's not. Whether you choose to do so, or Bfing doesn't work out for whatever reason, or you decide to transition from BM to FM, that's cool. But the fact still remains that breast milk is a superior nutritional product to formula. Nothing can change that fact, and science can't properly replicate it in formula.

It really undermines any pro-FF argument, or even just arguing for equality in feeding choice, to trot out the falsehood that formula is the same, or as good as, breast milk, because it makes that person look ignorant. Concentrate on the equality of mothers to choose to feed their babies however they like. THAT is what really matters.

And having to make this point makes pro-BFers like me look like we're criticising Ffing, which I'm not. I passionately believe in choice for all mothers, but I won't let people fling lies and ignorance around on any topic, never mind this one. You don't need incorrect facts to back up your choice. Just stand by it. Choice is good. Being pro- anything doesn't mean you have to be anti- anything else.

I'll admit that getting DS attached isn't the convenient part - especially when out in public - he's 11 weeks now and I still struggle to get him attached properly and discreetly, hence why I get nervous about doing in public and have people think, "What the hell is she doing?!"

The convenience to me is just the fact I don't have to sterilise anything, I don't have to worry about packing bottles or formula in my nappy bag if I want to go. I won't ever find myself in situation where I run out of bottles/formula should my plans overrun. I like the fact that I know I can go out all day knowing there is milk on tap I also like it that when DS shows signs of being hungry I can just pop him on without having to make him wait for a bottle to be made up and warmed - but like I said, I know that issue doesn't really exist anymore and probably doesn't take anytime at all really.

Its definitely convenient at night though when he needs a feed, I just lean over and pick him up, it's nice not having to get out of bed

Good post 0xford - well said. In my job I have to do 16 hours worth of breast feeding training (a 2 day course) and I doubt there'd be much to say for 16 hours if BF really wasn't that important or beneficial.

YES, glitterstained! I totally agree. I think a lot of it is just misogyny, and the baby aspect is actually incidental. Breastfeeding is women occupying a space doing something entirely female, and they are using a part of their body traditonally seen as sexual objects for the gratification of men as non-sexual objects to care for a child (caring not being respected in our society). Many misogynists - and that includes women with internalised misogyny - feel really angered and perturbed by that, and they blame the woman, not their own inadequacy (as misogyny always teaches to blame the woman).

YY my aim was to be a skilfull discreet breastfeeder and move on from the v pillow, and be in a cafe all serene breastfeeding, smiling and drinking a latte. Because that's what my ante natal classes had led me to believe.

They didn't cover my actual scenario funnily enough.

We got into a routine with the FF and it really wasn't a faff at all with a bit of organisation.

Oxford are you really suggesting that I should have quoted studies at my sobbing niece to 'prove' how superior bf is?

No, I used our own personal experiences to help her realise that, in our family and everyone we know, that superior breast milk hadn't made diddly squat difference to any of us, or our children.

I didn't say it was not superior. I know it changes with the baby's needs blah blah, hence why I put up with 12 months of hell to do it.

But it didn't actually make my dd any different to my great nephew. There's a benefit obviously. But it's minimal.

Or did your baby sprout a cloak and X-ray vision?

I do think whether you get left to feed in peace/receive a barrage of abuse depends on the confidence of the feeder. I was fully confident, happy to feed anywhere and woebetide anyone who would have asked me to shut up. Clearly I had a "do not approach" face

And actually, it doesn't matter why someone is offended by my breastfeeding - I am not doing ANYTHING to offend. The issue is wholly theirs and they are choosing to be offended. Therefore their problem - I'm not changing perfectly reasonable behaviour on the whim of a prat.

Oh I loved the freedom of having an EBF baby - just pop her in her sling or pram and off we'd go. I have lovely memories of DD and I going off for all day adventures, stopping for a bf wherever she happened to require one.

I was not in the least bit discreet - my boobs are huge, which makes it difficult, and from a couple of months old DD refused to stay under any kind of cover, crying and kicking at it till I gave up - and I never had any negative comments, possibly because I live in a very affluent area with high bf rates. I would have felt very comfortable challenging anyone who had though - none of their bloody business how I feed my child, and if they don't like it, they don't have to look.

If I could have BF in public I would have done it definitely. But I wanted to be confident first. As I wasn't any further on in the confidence stakes after 6 weeks I accepted it wasn't meant to be.
I needed to leave the house.

I agree that it's silly to claim that formula is just as good/just the same as breastmilk, or that there are no health risks to formula - but generally the differences are seen on a population level rather than individually (unless the baby is unlucky enough to be one of the 5% or so allergic to cow's milk of course). Formula is a perfectly valid choice for many reasons.

Damnit Nexus I'm depriving my baby of x ray vision? :(

And I'm not discreet about feeding either - I just get on with it in the quickest and easiest way for me and my baby. The biggest benefit to breastfeeding for me is not having to worry about all the safety aspects of formula - sterilising, making it up properly, storing and transporting. My babies have both also had formula but only at home for those reasons!

Apparently Moomin

Don't worry though I must have done something wrong, fed dd for 12 months and she didn't even fly around the room once!

I'm a failure as a mother (sobs)

Once DS1 was FF I suddenly had loads more time between feeds and didn't have to feed him while out in public much at all. That was a convenient plus after all the misery that preceded it.

Mine can do a sonic scream... I must just have had super colostrum seeing as a little bit of expressed colostrum is all she got

Bfing mothers wouldn't need to feel confident feeding their babies in public if there weren't people with ridiculous attitudes towards it though.

It was nothing really to do with other peoples attitudes in my case. It was how I felt about it. I wouldn't have wanted to do it if I was the only customer in Costa, I wasn't relaxed or comfortable unless on my own settee IYKWIM.

Personally, after reading MN, I wonder if the feeding in public issue has got worse instead of better since I was BF my boys twenty or so years ago. I fed both of them for a year and BF them anywhere and everywhere. No adverse comments at all, in fact the opposite.

Yes, me and my DH are that older couple who smile and stop for a chat when we spot a BF mother and baby. I saw somewhere on here that some women don't like that, but we just want to show support. We also talk to FF mothers too. Perhaps my hormones are going mad in my late fifties but I love babies!

Both of my lads are now well versed in the issues and it will be interesting to see what kind of fathers they become.