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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder WHAT exactly it is about a breastfeeding mother that some find offensive?

334 replies

MistressDeeCee · 06/06/2014 17:01

www.itv.com/news/london/2014-06-06/breastfeeding-mother-in-tears-over-barrage-of-verbal-abuse/

OP posts:
Talisawasnotsupposedtobethere · 07/06/2014 11:35

oxfordbags - I think what ladynexus is getting at (sorry if I have got it wrong!) is that if you lined up 100 adults it would be incredibly difficult to determine which of them was breastfed and which were formula fed. I am a teacher and I wouldn't have a clue which of the kids in my care were breastfed. Also no one ever asks 'how we're you fed as a baby?' When you go to the doctors as an adult (or even past the age of about 1 ime!).

In the grand scheme of things it just doesn't really matter does it?

I don't know, maybe I just have a bit of a coloured view because I have watched quite a few friends really struggle with breastfeeding but persevere because its best for their baby - only for their babies to get every illness and allergy going. I would be really bitter if that happened to me!

OxfordBags · 07/06/2014 11:36

LadyNexus, I don't know if all the differences could be called 'marked' in all BF children. It will usually be subtle, or look subtle, as it's all part of a bigger picture. Plenty of other things a mother, or both parents might do or not do can easily negate those benefits (I've seen a couple of women smoking whilst breastfeeding, which is going to be far worse for a kid in the long run than a non-smoker giving her baby formula). That's why yes, breastmilk is the optimal nutrition, but it's part of a bigger picture of what parents can do for their child's health. My approach is very much 'if you can give them that optimal choice without suffering yourself (and that includes mentally, as some women don't like the idea of Bfing, even if they are physically capable, which must be respected), then why not give it a go?', as opposed to 'everyone must do it, or they've failed'.

However, a very inportant part of the picture, which people don't consider, is that the benefits continue throughout a lifetime, so it's not just about any immediate benefits or differences to a baby or child there and then. When discussing benefits or differences, this should always be kept in mind, I feel.

PhaedraIsMyName · 07/06/2014 11:36

Oxford what pressure to switch to formula? The only pressure put on me was to bf and to continue bf despite it making me utterly miserable.

Sparklingbrook · 07/06/2014 11:37

Talis i thought all the A* grade children would be BF surely? Grin

LaurieMarlow · 07/06/2014 11:38

Here's some reading that suggests that the benefits may not be as clear cut as we have been led to believe.

commonhealth.wbur.org/2014/02/sibling-study-finds-no-long-term-breastfeeding-benefits-for-kids

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/04/the-case-against-breast-feeding/307311/

As with most medical research, evidence from different studies can be contradictory, it's difficult to determine if sample sizes are big enough and its hard to know if all other biases have been removed.

Talisawasnotsupposedtobethere · 07/06/2014 11:38

By the way, I am NOT saying that formula milk is the same or better than breastsmilk, just that already the way I fed my DS already seems so insignificant and unimportant and he is only 2!

TheBogQueen · 07/06/2014 11:39

I think...i think, it's more to do with how things are as a baby - so bf babies are less likely to have gastric problems, D&V...although all three if my bf babies had terrible colic.

Also bf helps the babiy's immune system - so if baby ill, it passes germs onto mother through nipple, she produces antibodies which flow back through the milk.

And it's free

But breastfeeding is not some badge of honour and there are times when bottle feeding formula is best fir mother and baby

Sparklingbrook · 07/06/2014 11:40

Wait til he's 15 Talis. I had forgotten all about it until discovering MN when he was 12.

Writerwannabe83 · 07/06/2014 11:42

oxford - I'm with you. BF didn't come naturally to me at all, it was horrendous. By the time I got to 5 weeks I was an absolute mess. I was ringing helplines in tears and having Peer Supporters round to my house to help me and listen to me pour out my worries. I joined a BF support group which also really helped and I went to see a Breast Feeding Advisor twice in order to try and address some of my difficulties. At one point I was so low with it all that I was crying constantly - my HV and DH were genuinely worried about my emotional and mental well-being. My DH thought I was on the verge of 'cracking up'. Even now at 11 weeks I still haven't perfected the technique and don't think I ever will. The majority of my friends and family couldn't understand why I didn't just give formula - but it just wasn't an option in my own mind.

LadyNexus · 07/06/2014 11:43

Yes Talis that is what I meant. I've just seen so many friends and family struggle when as adults I couldn't pick out which of us had been ff vs bf.

Genuinely Oxford I am completely ignorant of any benefits provided by bf in to adulthood, even my bf advisor didn't mention those. I'm really surprised they aren't more widely advertised.

Writerwannabe83 · 07/06/2014 11:45

Don't forget the benefits to he mother: reduced risk of breast cancer, ovarian cancer and osteoporosis Smile

OxfordBags · 07/06/2014 11:46

Talisa, no-one has ever claimed that BFing is some magic wand that will stop a child getting illnesses or allergies, etc. I think a lot of people get confused when its benefits are discussed and think it means that it eards these things off, and when they see different, they think the claims are bullshit or not qualified by real life experience.

The benefits are subtle, complex and fluid (I don't mean as in liquid). When people talk about benefits to the immune system, for example, it doesn't mean that it'll stop things happening to a child. It can mean that a cold, say, is a bit milder, because of the properties in breastmilk, but also because breastmilk is often the only thing that a baby or child can keep down when they are ill, and the act of nursing in mummy's arms is really comforting, so there's a psychological aspect to the healing process too. With allergies, a child will still get them if they are genetically programmed to develop them - breastmilk can't retrospectively alter one's DNA! - but they can manifest more mildly than they would otherwise do, or maybe they not manifest the whole spectrum of intolerances that they have the genetic potential to develop. Do you see? It's not about babies/children never getting ill, it's about a much bigger picture.

I find it a really odd concept to be bitter that a BF baby would get ill despite me struggling with BFing Confused It's not about the validation for the adult.

PhaedraIsMyName · 07/06/2014 11:49

Oxford what benefits lasting a lifetime?, I think the fact my son had 2 non-smoking parents, high earning parents, a mother who didn't didn't drink and all the other benefit that come with committed parents will count for more than whether I bf for 3 months than 2 years.

This is anecdotal obviously but I was exclusively ff and am one of the healthiest people I know son had 3 months of this magic potion, he is the same.

Or is benefits lasting a lifetime meant to mean non bf are prejudicing their children for a lifetime?

Talisawasnotsupposedtobethere · 07/06/2014 11:50

But oxford most women in this country do 'give it a go'. Isn't the breastfeeding rate at birth something like 86%. It dwindles massively though, and very quickly, which suggests it is not that the 'breAst is best' message isnt getting out there, but that the support to keep going with it jet isnt there.

Talisawasnotsupposedtobethere · 07/06/2014 11:51

Sorry Oxford I was replying to your previous post.

TheBogQueen · 07/06/2014 11:53

But I also think alot of women just don't want to continue with it.

Why is that a problem?

OxfordBags · 07/06/2014 11:55

Nexus, the adult benefits are subtle, and include mental and emotional ones. It's to do with overall immunity, and so on. But again, individual factors prevail. No-one can ever say definitively that having been BFed as a baby will do X, Y, and Z for you as an adult, because everyone is unique. They do know the basic benefits with basic other factors taken into account (ie average lifestyle), and that's it, I guess. Again, I would say "why not give it a go if you can do it and want to do it", as opposed to insisting that everyone BFed their kids and felt bad if they couldn't or didn't want to.

Writer is correct that it is proven, however, that breastfeeding a child has benefits for the mother. That remains even with other factors. They first decided to investigate these when they started to notice that nuns are statistically miles more likely to have female cancers than any other group of women, and loads of research showed that the defining factors were them not having children to a minor extent, but not having nursed a child to quite a significant extent. That's not saying that any mother who hasn't BF will get cancer, of course not, just that Bfing gives some benefits.

And Writer, you will get there, trust me. I was saying the same as you at 11, 12 weeks, but it does improve. Sometimes, they just need to get older and deepen their latch.

PhaedraIsMyName · 07/06/2014 11:55

writer a few posts back you queried my post that the convenience of bf was greatly exaggerated as far as I was concerned. Yet now apparently you didn't find it particularly easy either.

OxfordBags · 07/06/2014 11:56

Phaedra, see my first paragraph above :)

Sparklingbrook · 07/06/2014 11:57

Even the phrase 'deepen their latch' reminds me of the excruciating pain.

Writerwannabe83 · 07/06/2014 11:58

I did find it very difficult at first and I explained in my original post what I found convenient about breast feeding and I certainly didn't say it was because it was easy to do Grin

pianodoodle · 07/06/2014 11:58

Awful that happened however hopefully abuse like that is becoming rarer.

I've always been fine when out and about bf and never felt uncomfortable from other people.

My only problem is a big heavy baby! At home I have my life saving widgey cushion. Out and about I get sore arms unless I get lucky with the right type of seat :)

fledermaus · 07/06/2014 11:59

Most babies are breastfed at birth, and a third are still breastfed at 6 months, so it's not exactly a ridiculously small minority.

Sparklingbrook · 07/06/2014 12:02

I found out after my failure that none of the women on my mother's side have managed to successfully breastfeed. Which I found quite interesting.

Writerwannabe83 · 07/06/2014 12:02

fledermaus - in the county I live in over 80% of babies are breast fed at birth but in the particular area I work in only 11% of babies are still breast fed by the time they are 6 weeks old.

However, the majority of the area I work in is quite deprived and I do wonder if the rates vary between geographical areas.